My 2 cents on the new Camaro...gotta say it

[redbaron]

I know where you are coming from Charley, as I wanted a new 69 Camaro also. I'm the lucky owner of all four of the past generations of F-Bodies and still own a few 69s. But as I sit here and look at the new Camaro concept I believe this the right direction for GM to go for these reasons. First, a company must be progressive and look ahead not back. The new Mustang and concept Challenger take something away from the originals. I certainly don't want that to happen to our beloved 69s. The Camaro concept has a hint of the past, but with a modern twist to it. The more I study the pictures of the new Camaro the more I love this car. Sure would like to see it in person though. I hope GM brings back the Camaro and more rear drive SS models, this would not only turn GM around but also give us what we want. Oh by the way put a check box with LS7 next to it for mine. If Chevy builds the new Camaro I will buy it.

[Jeff Murphy]

Charley, thanks for the opportunity to post on this topic for the benefit of Chevy. You might suggest to Scott that he has a pretty good cross section of people on this site (age, geography, income brackets, etc.) that are all likely buyers of this car. I bet if asked, he'd get plenty of people willing to participate in focus groups, etc. to help refine the design and marketing strategy for the Camaro.

Anyway, here's my piece:

I was 3 in 69 so I didn't qualify as a first time buyer then. But the shape of the 69 has always appealed to me and I wanted one ever since I became interested in cars. I'm luck enough to have two now. My first real car was an '84 Z-28.

It's funny how the evolution of cars takes place and how our feelings change about each of the evolutionary stages. I love the 60s Camaros. I hated the 70-81 cars originally, but now like the early years of these cars. I think the 3rd gens were closer to the spirit of the 60s cars. I never liked or understood the styling of the late 90s cars. Dare I say that the evolution of the Camaro was very disjointed from era to era, unlike the smoother changes of the Corvette, for example.

Like others on this site and elsewhere, I think Chevy has a wonderful opportunity to capitalize on one of its most successful designs ever, by recapturing the spirit of the 1st gen Camaro in an updated design reflecting current manufacturing practices, technology, performance and styling. What is important, I think, is to pay greater heed to the styling cues of the original car than the current design does. The efforts of Ford, even including the woeful T-Bird (not a performance car really - that was the problem), and Chrysler with respect to these updated retro models have worked (both from a design perspective, and I suppose in the showroom) because they have updated the cars appropriately while making very strong visual ties to the past cars. The combination of feelings of regained youth, available modern performance and an attractive price point is a powerful mix that appeals to both emotion and wallet.

The current prototype doesn't quite capture that mix correctly. I think the pointy grill/bumper treatment is the culprit. Too much a "me too" with the Cadillac stable and some other cars. Flatten the nose off while keeping a good sized grill opening and you end up with a meaner looking car evoking the 1st gen front end that I'm sure will be a winner. It worked for Ford on the Mustang and is apparent in the new Challenger too. Don't worry about being viewed as pursuing a "me too" strategy, you need to sell cars. People don't want a rocket ship design, they want a muscle car that runs like a rocket ship. With that in mind, you should make an LS-7 version of the car. Mercedes, Audi and BMW aren't afraid to stuff 500hp+ in their mid-size coupes.

I had the chance to buy one of the 5 ZO-6 Corvettes destined for the UK, but ended up passing on the car as impractical for London. But an LS-7 powered, flat nosed Camaro - sign me up.

[Jeff H]

While I like the look of the 67-69 Camaro, I really don't need a new Camaro to look like an old one. Like I posted in the other thread, if I want a 69 Camaro, I can go out and buy a 69 Camaro. I didn't like the 3rd gen Camaro but it grew on me. Same thing for the 4th gen. A new car isn't as much about the appearance as it is about what's under the skin and how it runs/drives/performs/handles. I think the new platform has a ton of potential and being a 2 door rear wheel drive V8 pony car is all that really matters. Sure, it needs some tweaks here and there to give it a better appearance and identity. But I'd rather see a new style than a retro thing. The Mustang looks good and the Challenger looks great, but that's from the point of view of cars guys and majority of the buyers will not be like us. But it will really come down to pricing regardless of what it looks like. I sure hope they can keep it in the $30K or under range. Anything higher than that and you lose a lot of potential buyers. If that Challenger comes out at $40K, there won't be a lot of people lined up to buy it because there aren't a lot of people with that kind of money for a 2 door sports car. I think by the time the new Camaro is ready to be released it will have much more of an identity. And if all the mechanicals under the skin are better than the 4th gen, then it will be one heck of a fun car!

[rsatz28]

[ QUOTE ]
But it will really come down to pricing regardless of what it looks like. I sure hope they can keep it in the $30K or under range. Anything higher than that and you lose a lot of potential buyers.

[/ QUOTE ]


1-10-06 Chicago Tribune auto writer
Pricing

Bob Lutz, in charge of product development at GM, said the new Camaro would cost about $200 more than the rival Ford Mustang, with a base price of $19,000, but will have more equipment.

He sees it as a high-volume car with sales of 120,000 to 150,000 a year. Mustang output is at around 190,000 units.

[Zedder]

I watched two shows on Discovery this week; one with he designers of the new Challenger and one with the designers of the new Camaro. Their thoughts on the new car were very different. The Challenger guys were taking the old car and making it new, while the Camaro guys were making a "new" car that had some styling elements of the '69 Car. This difference in intention is exactly what sets the cars apart and exactly why most of us on the Collector car boards like the Challenger concept better...it was designed for US; the Camaro wasn't. I've owned more than 30 first gen Camaros and must say that the new car is just "OK". If it were cheap enough, I might buy it. Now, I have never owned a Mopar anything, but if the new Challenger was the same price as the new Camaro, I'd buy it first. That being said, I would pay a premium if the new Camaro looked more like a first gen Camaro - even as much as $45K US if it had the Z06 motor.

So the problem as I see it is that GM designed a car for new buyers that does not necessarily appeal to us. They need to go back to the drawing board and design one that appeals more to both groups.

[Stuart Adams]

I like the new car. Change the front end some and put plenty of power in there and it will be good. Great start. If the consensus is the 69 looks best then it took them a couple of years to get that body also(67,68).

[BUIZILLA]

I agree 100% with Charley........ I am sitting here with $80,000 in cabbage in a bag, to buy a new Z06, and the local dealers want 12k-to-13k OVER sticke, at about $91,000 out the door. They'll order one for sticker, but it's a 1+ year wait they say..... I will pay cash for a black/black Z06 at sticker, and maybe some+++ sticker today....

with that said, if Chevy made a '69 retro with an LS7-500hp, I will write a check today, and if they don't I'll buy something else, probably a Mustang, the same way about 50,000 others will, when they jump on the Mustang/Challenger/Charger bandwagon. If Chevy can sell 36,000 Vette's a year, they SHOULD be able to sell 70,000 to 100,000 '69 retro camaro's a year. Use the LS1 as a base and the LS7 as an option.

What the hell is wrong with them????

I can't stand the new car one bit.

Jim Haas

[Born30YrsLate]

Here's thoughts from one of the "younger" generation...retro the design a little bit more towards the '69 style (mostly the front end), give it a more aggressive hood scoop and drop in the latest and greatest Chevy Hi-Po engine and I'll knock over the "old farts" to get one...no offense meant to the guys that were around when the "first" '69 Camaro was introduced...