ThE ** RAREST** C.O.P.O. Car .

[70 copo]

Norwood Plant engineering had a hand full of 427 cars to test most evenings out back by rail load out during production.

The estimate came from the engineer who was responsible for the actual physical testing.

He stated he tested in total "several hundred cars" as a required control group from 427 production. Testing was limited to two cars per shift during the build period or a 50% production control grouping.

[William]

The "approximately 700 total vehicles" was an estimate made during July, 1969. There were plenty of COPO Camaros built August 1969 through the end of production. All Camaro orders in the system at that time were built in July. When Camaro production resumed August, 1969 the body/confirmation number sequence had been reset to N100001. I have 41 VINs for cars built 08C and later not on order in July.

"This may or may not be correct but it seems inconsistent to say Chevy considered the COPO 427 as a L78 and not an SS. If they began as an L78, I would think they would be SS L78 before the COPO 427 conversion but we don't know how they were used in the RPO totals."

At one time GM Canada would send a copy of the page of system-generated build records a certain VIN was listed on. There would be 15-20 other VINs/build records on the page. I have many of these pages. The build records for COPO Camaros shipped to Canada ONLY list L78 and do NOT list Z27-even the ZL1. Those cars also list the COPO number. [True L78 cars will also list Z27]. The letter CDN later supplied also listed the options that way for COPOs. That means that when Chevrolet tallied up the option build totals at the end of production, there were 1,066 L78 cars that were NOT also Camaro SS.

The only explanation for that: 69 COPO 9560 Camaros, 997 COPO 9561 Camaros. The Fran Preve and T & B numbers support it. There is plenty of evidence that there were many COPO Camaros ordered and built long after the July letter. Known late MN/MO engine dates: 822, 906, 911, 916, 923, 1002, 1013, 1016. Known late BE axle dates: 908, 919, 927, 1003.

The July letter might include all COPO Chevelles ordered/built; not all COPO Camaros.

[JoeC]

Originally Posted by William

Fran Preve wrote an article "The Numbers Game" published in the April 1987 MCR. Total Camaro L72 engine production is shown as 1,015. He states:

"Remember that these numbers indicate the number of complete engines built for production and after sale use, and do not reflect actual COPO cars produced."

He mentions an error rate of about 2% relative to actual car production. That's about 20 L72 engines. Do the math.
.

I did the math

the SHP 427 engine production to car production percentage is way over normal on 3 of the 4 special HI PO builds

The Fran Preve article "The Numbers Game" said that engine production was 2 to 5 percent over car production . He was talking about regular production engines and cars and he must not have known the COPO 427 car production numbers at the time of the article (1987)

Here are the numbers I have on the 427 COPO engine production to car production percentage and included the ZL1 Corvette since it was also a special HI PO build

ZL1 Camaro 88 engines to 69 cars = 22%
L72 Chevelle 358 engines to 323 cars (using RPOs) = 10%
L72 Camaro 1015 engines to 997 cars (using RPOs) = 2%
ZL1 Corvette 94 engines to about 3 cars = about 96%

[JoeC]

Originally Posted by William

There is plenty of evidence that there were many COPO Camaros ordered and built long after the July letter. Known late MN/MO engine dates: 822, 906, 911, 916, 923, 1002, 1013, 1016. Known late BE axle dates: 908, 919, 927, 1003.

The July letter might include all COPO Chevelles ordered/built; not all COPO Camaros.

20 years later and it is still an interesting discussion to me

How many L72 Camaros could have been made after the end of July? Maybe 100?

Using the RPO L78 and RPO Z27 SS totals it comes up with 997 L72 Camaros produced.

Chevy COPO letters state about 700 COPO 427s were “in process” as of 7-9-69. (includes ZL1, L72 Camaro, and L72 Chevelle)

That would mean less then 500 L72 Camaros produced by July 31 .

Chevy would have had to make another 500 L72 Camaros after July 31 to get up to the 997 total

[William]

Tonawanda did not produce engines on spec. They were built based on demand from vehicle assembly plants. Tonawanda built 1,373 Camaro/Chevelle L72 engines. For '700 total vehicles' to be correct means about 700 L72 engines were produced for no reason. Really think they did that?

"That would mean less then 500 L72 Camaros produced by July 31."

By July 17th, Tonawanda had produced 920 Camaro L72 engines. The various data bases out there have over 400 COPO Camaro VINs built as of the July shutdown at Norwood. There are plenty of unknown COPO Camaros; the famous Mac's Chev photo dated June 1969 shows 8 COPO Camaros on their lot. Only one is known. Courtesy Chev in Sebring OH had some; none known to exist.

"The Fran Preve article "The Numbers Game" said that engine production was 2 to 5 percent over car production . He was talking about regular production engines and cars and he must not have known the COPO 427 car production numbers at the time of the article (1987)."

What difference would it would have made if he did know? Fran clearly states where he got the data:

“The numbers are taken directly from Chevrolet’s Summary of Engines Shipped.”

Why do you continually second-guess his data, obtained directly from Tonawanda production records by an employee, 18 years after production?

“…and the Fran Preve numbers come close but there are questions on the accuracy…”

Who knows better than an insider with complete access to production data?

Here is a COPO Camaro build record for a car shipped to Canada. Lists L78, 9561, no Z27. Why are there 1,066 more Camaro SS engines [L48, L34, L35, L78] listed in the T & B totals than total Z27 Camaro SS production?

[bergy]

As supervisor on the charging floor of the Tonawanda Foundry, I also had supervisory responsibility over the briquetting operation. We would receive train car loads of iron borings from the Tonawanda Motor Plant and run them through briquetting dies to make them suitable for re-melting in the cupolas. One day, we received a complete ZL1 engine buried in the borings! It turned out that the 3rd shift clean up crew at the motor plant was dumping ZL1s on top of the borings in the rail car and covering them up. Then - over in the switch yard (off of Chevrolet property) - they would dig them out and take them. The whole operation was stopped and some employees got fired after we reported what we found in the rail car. No telling how many ZL1 engines they stole before the operation was stopped. Rumors in the plant indicated that it was going on for months, but certainly not every night.


Not sure if these engines were stolen before they were counted in production totals or after. I did reach out to Fran to discuss this issue before he died, but he didn't have much interest in the subject. I'm not sure when Fran was PM at Tonawanda. I was at a lot of meetings at the motor plant, but don't recall Fran.

Just offered this tid-bit to add confusion to the production totals!

[Mr70]

Wow,how complete were the ZL-1's?...air cleaner to oil pan to water pump?
And didn't some of the borings get inside the engine?

[bergy]

The one that we found was wrapped in plastic. Built intake to pan - can't recall WP. The ZL1 blocks were machined on their own CNC machining center up by the offices - very state of the art at the time. I'm not sure if they were even assembled on the regular production line. I didn't work in the motor plant - just passed by the ZL1 machining center on the way to QC meetings over there.

[Kurt S]

I've stared at the production numbers for years. It took a long time, but I completely buy into the 997 COPO 9651 number.
More proof - there are more than 500 L72 cars in the database. That's 50%, which is very high. Nothing like $ to help drive the search!

[markinnaples]

bergy, wow, that's a crazy story, thanks for sharing that. I can only imagine all the stuff that you guys have seen over the years. Thanks again for giving us a glimpse of what it was like back then, you guys are so valuable to all of us here.