Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to do?

[Tim Greer]

Thanks, that's pretty much the type of stuff my father was rattling off on the phone just by what I was saying (before he has seen it) and it was too much for me to commit to memory, and involved aspects I either am not yet qualified to do, or things I refuse to do when I paid these guys to do it. In the end, I want it to be what I paid for, and I don't mind playing a part in that, even with some effort, but that opens other scenarios I've yet to feel out with how receptive these guys will be or not. Thanks.

[Tim Greer]

I figured I should post an update. I picked up the car about two or so hours ago. I ended up just taking the car and not paying the balance and they agreed (but I'm still in a bad spot, as good as an outcome as that may sound like). I explained the car needed to be reshot, he didn't disagree, but I'm pissed he tried to ignore it hoping I'd settle for the condition it was in. I found two or three significant runs in the paint, parts where a mirror was mounted at one point that bled through the paint, a bunch of scratches and chips all over the car... and, get this, the driver and passenger side windows that were perfect now have BIG, DEEP scratches in them and they're going to need to be replaced!

This guy had it at a stereo shop to do the wiring for the hideaway headlights (he claimed the motors were bad and they'd test them or get them to work -- I had a whole new wiring harness, motors, etc. installed before I took the car to them (I had opened and closed them maybe 4-8 times total before taking the car to them). Anyway, these people were supposed to fix the reverse lights and blinkers as well (the hazard worked fine)). I told him when his own "mechanic" was working on it, that if he couldn't figure out a simple wiring on this car, I would look at it, or have the guy I had do it originally look at it, and to call me and let me know. Two weeks of him not answering the phone or returning my calls, I find it's at that place.

That place was a real shop, had people answering the phone and I could get a hold of them to find out what was going on. When these guys lost my stereo, I got a CD player for the car and asked if it would fit. He said it would, but when he took it to these guys, he told them "Do what you have to to get this working with this CD player". When I talked to the shop, I asked what they were doing, where they were at and what they still needed to do (as usual, I'm told two days they'd have it, and it was 2 weeks), they told me they fixed the headlight motors and the turn signals and backup lights didn't work (yet the hazards did). They said they were going to cut into the dash to put the CD player in and make a wood bezel custom.

I said I never authorized that and don't want anyone cutting into it and wood would like ghetto -- he agreed and said he'd not do that to his classic truck either. By then, all of the electrical was supposed to be done and I told them I didn't want to wait another week or more for a stereo, especially since I don't want anything cut (I was told it would fit, but since it won't after all, I'll decide what to do about that later). I told them to stop work and tell the autobody shop to pick it up. They did and the guy picked it up the next morning. I never heard anything from the autobody shop this entire time, no messages returned just asking where they are at. I left a message after getting pissed off and said "I never authorized or said to cut into the dash, I specifically asked you if it would fit and you said it would--DO NOT tell people to just "do whatever" to MY car!". I knew that'd make him less likely to call because he never wanted to deal with their screw-ups and just preferred to avoid me and make the problem worse by dragging it out.

They said they had to replace the brake cylinders and bleed them a couple of weeks ago and said it was done. Yet, I pick up the car, we agree I don't pay the measly $1,500 balance on this $16K job I've had them do, because of the deep scratches in the windows they put in (this is quite bad, by the way), the fact they lost the original stereo and bezel/face plate, and the fact they never got the scratches out that I knew were too deep. He said it would take two months to reshoot the car and I said I'm not waiting, how about I pay you nothing and take the car away like it is now.

Well, that sounded good enough to be done with these people (I didn't have a choice, I wasn't leaving it sitting there and these guys have no definite plans for when they'll even have a booth!), and yet, as I was driving this home, I found the dash/instrument panel didn't light up, the headlights are not aligned (at least the doors open on the headlights), the brakes either were never fixed or they were never bled (I thought the car wasn't going to stop several times on the way home, in the dark!), and the idle is set really high because the mechanic sucks and doesn't know how to tune it (it ran great when I took it in almost TWO years ago!), and as I was trying to get the gauges to light up, there's a short when I turn it counter-clockwise and the interior under dash light comes on and nothing else.

The wipers didn't go on (luckily it wasn't raining), the reverse lights don't work. When I tried to use the turn signal, either right or left, it takes some good amount of force to get it to switch (even though they don't work, I was hoping 1/2 way home that maybe I just didn't see it and it's better than no signal at all and I was already in the thick of it with no good way to pull over). The car was also surging. I told them to drop the tank and clean it before filling it and they said they would, but I am having my doubts, I don't know if they even drained it, but I doubt they dropped it and did it right, so there's likely crap sucked into the carb jets.

There's more, but I am too annoyed to get into all of the details. The paint looks fine 5 or so feet away, but there's way too many problems with it. I paid for a new paint job, and I get this shoddy quality, right along with all of the mechanical and electrical problems, and all I was able to do was to tell them that I'm not paying the small $1,500 balance. I assumed they fixed the brakes, which could add a few hundred more I'd have to had to pay anyway, which they knew they couldn't tack onto the balance, since I was so far in the hole if I had to have someone else reshoot it. It didn't sound like they'd want to even reshoot it, and even if they did agree, who knows how long it'll be, even if they get the paint booth. No way are these guys going to last anyway, especially with this lack of quality, the huge delays and avoiding customers for weeks and months at a time. People only keep them in business with their cars being there, because people feel trapped since they'd gain more by waiting than by pulling their car out (even if they owed nothing) and having someone else start over.

So, I'm annoyed. I have to take my car back to the mechanic I trust (the guy I TRIED to get the autobody shop to contact, but I think he was bartering trades for work with whomever would accept the offer, so no way would they hire a real good person (or do any actual hiring), which just make things take longer in the end and even more people working on it that really didn't have reason to care about quality). Just scummy business practices. So, I'll have to pay this mechanic to fix all of the issues they've created, tune it, etc. and then get quotes from body shops I can trust to see how much they'd charge to resolve the current issue, prep, repaint and reclear the car (3 coats again, since that's what I paid for and waited for), and then figure out the difference and take these idiots to small claims court.

I'm certain they'll be out of business by then, but I'm going to get the quotes early next week and file a report with the California Bureau of Automotive Repair and get a case started and start the small claims suit. Better to file suit while there's a chance they'll still be in business. I had originally hoped to chalk it up to a bad experience and pay another $500-1,000 more than I planned for the difference it'd take over the final balance to have someone else do it, but with all of these other problems, I just can't accept that big of a loss. I'll be down anywhere from $3,000 to $6,000, depending on what all needs to be done with the mechanical, electrical, new glass, stereo replacement (that doesn't require cutting into the dash), the speakers for the stereo that are also lost, and then the re-paint process (fixing, prepping, painting and re-clear for max clear so I CAN buff out small scratches and have that deep look to the paint). This sucks. Anyway, that's the update (or the situation and the plan). At least I got it back and out of their shop so I can worry about one less thing and the rest of the situation is pretty standard on the resources I have available to satisfy me. Live and learn.

[SuperNovaSS]

Sorry to hear about the trouble. You may want to try taking the car to a detail shop to buff the paint before having it repainted. If they were not sanding the car before buffing and not causing any hot spots, the clear loss is minimal. Also, if you want coats of clear you should apply 5 or 6. By the time you color sand it will take at least a few coats off. On a smaller car like a Camaro or Nova I usually end up with about a pint left of the gallon of clear. That works out to about a gallon and a quarter of shootable material. Its not how many coats or the amount of material sprayed that counts in the end, its the way it is layed down and how much is lost in the air. Again, sorry to hear about the trouble. I not a lawyer but I doubt you will have much recourse with the shop since you took the car back at a discount. Do you have anything in writing as to the reason you took the car back without paying the balance?
By the way, you are not alone. I have NEVER got a car back from a paint shop exactly as promised. I rarely use the same shop twice as the quality goes down as they realize they can walk all over you.


Jason

[Tim Greer]

Well, this wasn't about the paint not being exactly as promised, it's that its got too many problems to even try and list here. I should have legal recourse, because I didn't have a choice -- they didn't have a booth and said it would be at least another two months to reshoot the car, and they had it for 22 months, when their estimate was 3 months in mid-May of 2007. I think the judge would agree that it was unreasonably long, since there's no reason for the huge difference (the shop has none). They lost items, damaged other items, and the paint job I had paid for was not performed.

They didn't live up to their end of the contract (I have absolute proof of this, it's not just my own interpretation) and I offered every means for resolution, but they weren't going to replace the windows they damaged, the lost stereo, etc. However, before I open a report with the Cal BAR, I will most certainly have a list of repair estimate costs for them to agree to pay -- I will give them a chance.

It would be different in the paint was simply just not perfect, but this is in sub standard condition by a long shot, not including the fact they failed to put the car back together to be mechanically sound, the electrical fails for a lot of things, the glass, the stereo, the parts they damaged that I brought in to them new with no damage, the brakes, and on and on. I'm pretty sure I have a case.

As for the clear, the scratches and other issues run to the base coat and to the metal, so it's not going to buff out. I understand that some people can't properly detail a car, but these problems aren't going to be able to be buffed out. If they could be, I'd not have such a big problem with it. Also, they'd never have agreed that it needed to be re-shot. The fact that they didn't demand I pay the final balance is just them admitting their work sucked and wasn't what I paid for, if it says anything, not including the additional problems I found as I was driving it home.

Anyway, I get what you mean about the clear, it's not how many layers, it's about how thick the layers are as well, how much is actually on the car, etc. Four layers of clear might not be as thick as one or two that someone else shot, if they skimped (intentionally or not) and just sprayed it with light coats (which is what it appears they did). I asked them if I needed to sign anything or if there was anything else when I was about to drive off with the car and he said no, so I didn't ever sign anything saying the work was complete, and in fact I told him specifically to that effect that there were a lot of issues that needed to be resolved and asked if "in those two months from now" if it was something they would be willing to resolve if I brought the car back.

I asked if he'd reshoot it and reclear for the final balance if I decided to do that, and he said he would, but didn't know when he could and it would "be a while". They haven't set up their paint booth yet and they don't even have the permit to do it, and it's not an easy thing to do (it's very difficult to get a permit to run a paint booth at a location where there isn't already one, so he better hope it's zoned for it, or he's screwed). The booth he said he was renting is at a shop that's going out of business.

So, in the end, through absolutely no fault of mine, they failed miserably to perform the work as outlined on the work order and caused numerous additional problems and damages that I'm going to have to get fixed -- and they will pay. If they don't, I will sue them in small claims and I will win (I have no doubt about it). If it ends up being a difference of only $1,000 or less, I might just call it a loss, but over that, especially in the $2-4K range, I'm not going to take a loss.

I paid them to perform work that they didn't perform, they knew they did terrible work and it was worse than even I thought when I picked up the car (they never mentioned any of these other issues and said everything was working -- it wasn't). No freaking way would I lose. I do understand they may be shut down and moved away by the time I take them to court or win, let alone for them to have the money to pay me when they lose, but luckily it's not too much to file.

I also understand that just because you're being fair and doing the right thing, and even if you're right, it doesn't mean you'll win, but I just don't see how I couldn't. I'm taking the car to the same mechanic that worked on these very same things (to a point) before these fools got a hold of it and screwed everything up. What a mess. Oh, and ironically, this is pretty funny, I noticed on their new business cards today, on the back, it says "COMPLETE PAIN STARTING AT $500". "Pain"? That's is one hell of an ironic typo!

[Mr70]

I remember vividly,back in the 1985,watching one of our local Chevy dealerships have an overly aggressive delivery prep assistant single handedly scratch the clear coat on a bunch of new arrivials for sale.
He was an older guy too which surprised me as I thought he would've had experience of what he was doing,and even raised on lacquer as the BC/CC was fairly new to the public and apparently this guy as well.
His job was to lightly wash and polish all that came off the ramp trucks,but he musta been using the wrong power tool,pad,compound and mentality altogether.
He stood over each and put so much pressure on them,that you immediately saw the swirls and scratches before he was done.Especially on the cars with soft plastic front air damns like Monte Carlos and Camaros.
He looked like he didn't care,and quite honestly I blamed the Mgmt. moreso,as absolutely no one was overseeing him,or checking his work.
I walked up to a few cars he finished,and my finger nails would actually get caught in the circular patterns he ground in.It was a real shame to see IROCS,Vettes,Z24's and Super Sports that way especially,and once I called the Service advisor over,he halted the employee from doing anymore damage,and reprimanded the Bodyshop manager.
I won't name the dealer,but they didn't have a very good Team..

[Tim Greer]

That reminds me, I forgot to mention that a good portion of the swirls did come out when he did the final detail, but a good amount of them remained (especially the deep straight one's when someone was putting too much pressure on it). Unfortunately the more severe aspects that go beyond that made me forget to mention it.

[Tim Greer]

Well, the car is in worse condition than I thought. I found chips showing rust underneath, and the paint came right off when I flicked it with my finger. I found another area that was down to the base primer and just ran my fingernail against it lightly to feel how deep it was, and more paint just came right off as I ran my nail over it. I have 227 images I've taken showing all of the problems and I have a list of all of the issues with the running of the car.

I'm going to spend the next hour or two compiling a big, detailed list and getting the images uploaded all onto a web page outlining the issues (I'll post a link here for people to see what I'm talking about). Following that, I'll email the body shop with the link encouraging them to read it. I'll then call him (from another phone line, so he doesn't know it's me, or else he won't answer or ever call me back) telling him to check his email.

I'll then let him know my intention and that I'll be filing a report with the California Bureau of Automotive Repair (where their license is currently in a delinquent state), and that I will file in small claims court for the max ($5K, I believe), because it's going to cost that much to have it done right and fix what these crooks tried to pull off. I'll also print an entire hard copy of the page and snail mail it to them.

At this point, for the steps to resolve the paint issue, it's no longer going to just be a prep and repaint, but to actually strip it down to the metal because they painted over rust. I found a lot of major runs and some holes (yes, holes). This car had only a few small rust areas on it, and it makes me really uneasy to see that they just sprayed paint over an area where the rust is flaking off. I'm so angry, but I'll do everything by the book and ensure I have a solid case (which I am sure I do).

[Tim Greer]

With all of the issues, it's incredibly difficult to chose only 10 or 15 pictures, and I don't want a huge page. I'll likely have a summary of the issues and try and cover everything in a couple of paragraphs and the most 10-15 offensive issues the car has, and then have a link that goes to a page with all of the images for reference and documentation. This way, no one following the link here or the shop, will have to be overwhelmed with it, but the information will be there if someone needs or wants to look more into it. It should be easy enough to outline the problems and not have to go into a big story about it to explain what happened, because they know, I know, and everyone on the forums I've posted this issue to also know that.

[Tim Greer]

I know it's long, but it's hard to document something and get your point across and outline all of the relevant details to get that point across, but I was able to get the images small, so the entire page of images are only 23 megs.

The page is at: http://www.chatbase.com/camaro/

That is basically what I sent to them. Yeah, I know it's wordy and long, but I didn't want to leave anything out. And that was without going into the rest of the stuff we all know from my previous posts above (and they already know it). I'll see how it goes. They'll either settle, lose the suit (no way could they win with all of the additional evidence and images I have), or they'll be out of business (hopefully not before I recoup my losses to be able to get some money for the amount I'm going to have to pay a body shop to do it right).

[SuperNovaSS]

Tim,


I'm sorry this happened to you. I do not think you are in as strong as a position as your think you are. Most runs look to be on the rockers. The hole you mention looks to be for non RS trim. Unless you have clear before pictures, it will most likely be your wood against theirs. As far as the time goes. You could have pulled it as soon as they did not meet their 3 month agreement. I am not beating you up. I have just been in your position MANY times before. IT SUCKS. I hope you come to a good conclusion.

Best of luck to you,

Jason