Day 2 Shifters - 4 Speed
 

Five important questions being weighed as I once again consider the installation of a true Day 2 vintage shifter. I would really like to see some accurate responses from those with first-hand experience installing and cutting into the floor of a first-gen car and from those who have first-hand experience using them on the street.

1.) What shifters, mounting brackets, and linkages you have had the best experience with?

2.) What shifter mounting bracket requires the least amount of cutting of the floor to mount the shifter body to the trans (high mount vs low)?

3.) Who has used the heavy-duty straight arm shift rods with Heim ends and was the shifting any better or smoother using the straight H/D rods?

4.) Reverse lockouts, which was the best to use or should I say the least pain in the arse. I'm assuming the Super Shifter design was better than the manual lockouts?

5.) If you were considering a brand new installation, what performance-based shifter would you install when not using a console and what type of mount would you use?

I installed a Super Shifter in the Day 2 Nova a couple of years ago but used the old Hurst H/D shifter rods and what I think was a second-gen Camaro mounting bracket. That kept the shifter body lower down and allowed the use of the early HD rods. When I tried using the suggested Hurst Super Shifter mount, it brought the body up into the car and required me to use the straight arm rods which also meant cutting the sides of the tunnel laterally. I negated that by using the second-gen mount and got lucky in keeping it a bit more clean with a lower mounting position, but those old Hurst rods are very hard to find now.

Does anyone else have a success story in the mounting application that contributed to a good experience? If so I would love to hear about your project and would really like to see some pictures with other Day 2 installations and floor mods? Thanks in advance and here is the modified install that went into my old Nova.Yes...it got a pistol grip handle.

https://i.ibb.co/q72SYRT/IMG-2987.jpg

Jeff Harnish was kind enough to send me some pictures of his 67 Camaro which is a great example of a Day 2 car with an original early issue Hurst Super Shifter. This version has the red reverse lockout lever that is lifted or pushed down in order to engage or lockout reverse gear. He's going to send some pics of the underside in the coming days and that will hopefully show the mount, and the shifter rods as well. He said it all came NOS in a kit and he used the early HD straight rods that came in the S/S kit. The hardest part to find of course was the shifter boot which we all know are like hen's teeth and costly to purchase now. Also seen in his car are some cool looking day 2 pedals branded Moon equipment.

You don't see these items too often unless a guy is a real Day 2 gearhead!!! Thanks for the messages Jeff. Your 67 is bad ass! :3gears:


https://i.ibb.co/wJY0wzq/IMG-5508.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/BTt1zgX/IMG-5506.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/C8R5sV1/IMG-5507.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/gWF1X04/IMG-5511.jpg

If any of you can access his Facebook video, here's a little clip of just how well Jeff's car lays in out on the street. This is one of Jody's gearboxes and that shifter works really well in this combo. It also helps to have an aluminum flywheel and some serious ponies under the hood as well. Case in point...just click on that link.

Here's the video which I just loaded onto youtube. It's worth watching if you're into 4-speed cars. Myself, I love this clip even though he's short-shifting it at 5700rpm. The car makes 540hp and is powered by a Shafiroff built 406 small block. Jody Haag prepped the A/G M-22 trans and it has a factory 12 bolt built with a Moroso "Brute Strength" center section and 4:10's (for now).

HaHa thanks Graeme for the kind words

LOL...I think I'm gonna need to order another carpet set. Working on securing an older Super Shifter for my car and have already made the carpet cuts for the console. Oh well, easy enough to change.

I can only relate experience on a 70-72 Chevelle tunnel, but have tried every shifter available, from old Comp Plus, to Hurst Vertigates, to Hurst Super Shifter, and even a Dale Earnhardt Nascar billet Super Shifter, and what I'm using now, a Long Vertigate. Any straight line shifter will require tunnel surgery on a Chevelle, and others probably. Depends on the diameter of rods, whether you are using heim joints, how much surgery, tunnel clearance is very close. Have had to cut all the way to the gas pedal on some.
Have owned nothing but 3 pedal hot rods since the 60's. PITA, but worth it.
Youtube is with a H pattern Super Shifter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vMnf7EugAo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWk9NdlWxvM

If you like solid lifter cars, the Elky is an old school 427NA BBC, 13:1 Compression ratio, solid roller, [email protected]., 4 speed, 4.88s out the back with slicks, best of 10.45@129.
As old school as it gets.

Thanks for adding that info Doug. The Elky is pretty quick for a big car. Enjoyed the ride down the track.

Thanks, it still has it's original interior except for the seats, was a bench seat, but couldn't get the seat to go back enough with the roll bar. Still has the factory gauges, heater, etc. Just don't have the heart to cut it up any more than I have to, it's a real W code Elky.

Now we are on a great topic!!!

I suggest cut a significant hole in the floor and the trans tunnel so you can use any shifter you want.

I have an extra set of NOS straight rods..... (I don’t want to sell them but do enjoy helping with a shifter upgrade...)

I have a feeling the Street Super Shifter may be the right choose. (Were the shifters with the red handle sold after the push down for reverse style? If so I would go for the push down for reverse style. (I have one but NFS)

RamRod....

P&G...

Lots of fun to be had!!

Ryan W31

Bernhard wrote:
Nice!

Ryan, I thought the original super shifters were pushed down for reverse but it turns out they were not equipped like that. After a couple more revisions it appears that Hurst came out with the red detent lever and the name later became Super Shifter 3. I was told the new versions being made today also had a push down reverse lockout but it appears that isn't accurate either. I think those are now called the Street Super Shifters? Does that sound right? Personally, I like the Super Shifter 3 series for that bright red handle that pulls up for reverse.

I'm also a big fan of the RamRod but do not think they are well suited on the street. That and the novelty of that trigger would soon become a pain in the arse to me. I had one that I mocked up a couple of years ago and while I still think they are cool...I could only see that lasting a week with me on the street. Maybe less as I like rowing through an H pattern.

Bernhard wrote:
Are you using aftermarket shifter rods?

I own a set but have yet to try them.

Ryan W31

Hoping to add some install pictures to this thread next week sometime. That'll include shots of the tunnel mods.

fyi the street super shifter currently available from Hurst new does not have any type of reverse lock out at all. it does have the straight rods but not the heavy duty reinforced ones.

That's good to know. I thought the current version still had some sort of lockout. I was mistaken on that so I now see. Thanks

The original Hurst Super Shifter 1 which was released circa 1971/72 was nothing more than a Hurst Competion Plus Body that was mounted high up off the transmission tailhousing and used a short 7” straight bolt on handle. This Super shifter 1 used a flat plate bracket and 3 solid spacers & grade 8 bolts. It used straight rods with a length of tubing over them, and conventional Hurst tags/swivels/bushings & clips. The tubing was crimped in the middle for retention. This 1st design Super Shifter did not use a push down for reverse and it said Hurst Competion Plus on it.

The Super Shifter 2 released approx 1974/75 ? was redesigned to fix issues with the bracket coming loose on tailhousing after repeated slamming of gears, and it used a redesigned mounting bracket that consisted of a piece of channel welded to the flat plate that eliminated the spacers. The shifter body said Super Shifter on it and was redesigned with push down reverse lockout function and had a small coil type spring located at the front on the bottom of the shifter body, this Super Shifter 2 also used 1-2/3-4 shift rods with crimped tubing. It had a tendency to pull the reverse lever slightly when slamming 3rd gear and you had to absolutely make sure the stops were set perfect or it tried to move the reverse rod ( causing grinding ) probably due to the spring causing load or friction between the internal body 3/4 & reverse levers.

The Super Shifter 3 used redesigned rods that were threaded where the clips go and used thin nylon type crimp nuts & wave spring washers and the body was redesigned and it no longer used the push down reverse function, it used the red handle positive reverse lockout , no idea the release date on it. It used a similar bracket as the Super Shifter 2, but stronger design.

Graeme you will have to cut a small horizontal notch in tunnel approx 4-6” long for the 3/4 rod as it leaves shifter body towards tag, you will also have to notch the tunnel somewhat for the shifter body and bracket . You can tweak/bend/pry the side of the tunnel somewhat to clearance for the 3-4 rod as it approaches the side cover tag. We just used to let the carpet cover this small slot. Keep the piece you cut out of tunnel, it can be welded back in if you ever decide to go back to original.

Hope this helps. Best of luck.

It may be because my car is a big block car and has the offset cross member, but I didn't have to cut a slot in mine for the shifter rod to clear. I used a dead blow hammer to move the tunnel a little so the rod would clear. The small block cross member may not allow enough room for this.

Thanks Freddie that is probably why. I think Rat motor cars the motor is over somewhat to passenger side?
I’ve done 5-6? Cars over the last 30? years all SB, 2-67,s, 2-68,s and a real 69 Z @ friend owned. All of them had to have the small slot and we also used a BFH to massage tunnel side.
We actually saved the pieces removed and I gas welded them back in the Z when he wanted it stock again .

Thanks for all that Mike. Helps me a bunch and also helps others to understand the differences of a bunch of these shifters. I knew you had a ton of experience with 4-speeds, most of the shifters, and all the Muncie transmissions. I was hoping that you might chime in and contribute some knowledge to this thread so again...thanks. :wink:

I got a new carpet in today and will now wait for the shifter to arrive. I knew the straight rods might require a cut and was hoping to massage the tunnel alongside the rods. I'll mock it up and cut the shifter hole, then massage the tunnel using a block of wood and a bottle jack to get the lateral stretch needed for the rods. Hoping to gain the clearance so that I don't have to cut the side.

Your welcome Graeme.

You may be able to sneak the trans x member over 1/4” or so to passenger side which may help. Try pushing trans over with no mount bolts in and see what u can get away with before modifying.

Nice pics , which design is the bottom left bracket ? I believe that’s the one I have & doesn’t have the red handle .... Is there a date code on the body ? It has the rods with tubing & steel bushings .It was in a 67 Camaro, Modified Production car that started racing in the early 70’s. It’s installed in my 66 Chevy II & the tunnel had to be split front to back & opened for the rods to clear ...

Bottom left Bracket in pictures is Super Shifter 2 as far as I know, it was used for many years, usually shifter body will say Super Shifter on it and have the push down feature with the small coil type spring at front under neath of shifter body. Don’t know how the dating transposes on late model hurst body’s.
Only the Super Shifter 1 used the flat plate bracket and 3 thick wall tube spacers, and the shifter body was conventional H pattern and just said Hurst Competion Plus on the body.

Install - Part 1

Figured I should add to this thread now that I have found a couple of shifters and have made the cuts to the floor of the 69 Camaro. In the past couple of years, I have asked about the cuts needed to install a day 2 shifter, and the general consensus from those who have done it was...you're going to need to hack the hell out of the tunnel. Well, that wasn't far off.

I ended up finding a couple of period-correct shifters which led to the project getting underway. The first was a used Super Shifter 3 that I used to mark up the holes for the floor cuts, and the second was a purchase I made a week later when I found a NOS Super Shifter 3 that was still in the box. Being that both have the H/D straight-armed shift rods that bolt-on at each end, I suspect each are early model designs from the late '70s to early '80s. Here are a few pictures of the NOS one before I get into the install.

https://i.ibb.co/4108pm5/Super-Shifter3-1.jpg
Notice the high position offset mount (left) and the H/D straight-armed shift rods and tabs on the right.

https://i.ibb.co/DRTf2GG/Super-Shifter3-2.jpg
The rods are threaded on each end and fasten with steel bushings, fold over locking tabs, and nylon locknuts.

https://i.ibb.co/YTXKyM5/Super-Shifter3-3.jpg
When set up and adjusted, you quickly get a sense of feel for how heavy duty these shifters are. You can really bang gears with these.

Graeme, 1 trick we used to do with the adjustment of the rods- once u get the alignment pin to fit we would lengthen the 3-4 adjuster 1 turn. This kind of makes the H patten more pronounced going towards 3 rd gear . This makes the shifter lower internal arms go through a stretched or distorted H pattern favouring it towards 3rd gear, this way when you are slamming gears it does not go through the exact H pattern . It does not effect the neutral position and does not cause binding when just cruising.

It sounds bad ass, Jeff!

Install - Part II

OK...so not having any real experience with installing one of these but knowing I'm going to have to cut the tunnel, I got started by measuring the shifter in relation to the tail housing and took note of some measurements on the shifter body and the mount. The first thing you need to realize is that these shifters (Hurst SS3 or RamRod) use this redesigned offset tail housing mount which raises the shifter body up by some 4" and offsets it a further 1.25" to the driver's side. (I believe this mount was modified in the mid to late 70s when the revisions were made to the super shifter to include the red lockout handle). Next, I marked the tail housing and installed the motor and transmission so that I could mock things up in the car and transfer the measurements over to the floor. Now the cutting begins.

https://i.ibb.co/27xrWLp/Shifter-1.jpg
Virgin floor before the cuts. Factory style hole is atop the tunnel.

https://i.ibb.co/s2H5hrz/Shifter-2.jpg
Making note of the shifter body width and the width of the mount, I marked the tail for what was needed.

https://i.ibb.co/bRs5zFJ/Shifter-2a.jpg
This shows the offset of the SS3 Shifter Mount Bracket. It's considered a High Mounting Position and will raise the shifter up through the floor.

https://i.ibb.co/DbWB5dY/Shifter-3.jpg
After installing the trans, I transferred the measurements to the underside of the tunnel. The initial hole was 4.750 wide x 8" tall.

https://i.ibb.co/t3wWhNX/Shifter-4.jpg
I drilled a couple of pilot holes for the jigsaw blade and got ready to cut the opening downwards.

https://i.ibb.co/SwLBsjL/Shifter-5.jpg
First I cut across the top and then went down each side to create a hinge at the bottom.

https://i.ibb.co/3h4yhyH/Shifter-6.jpg
I wanted to leave the hinge intact and possibly use this to enclose the shifter body by closing in the sides after it was pushed out.

https://i.ibb.co/wrfqc7n/Shifter-7.jpg
It gave me enough of an opening but did little to provide an area where a new boot could be properly installed topside.

https://i.ibb.co/NpvW6d1/Shifter-8.jpg
This idea can be used, but the boot would need to fold down the side of the tunnel. Not exactly to my liking.

To be continued...

Install - Part III

After making the first few cuts, I later decided that the opening needed to be enclosed better, I did some more trimming and immediately remembered what people had told me. "Your gonna have to chop and hack out the side of that tunnel to get it all to fit". Yeah OK...you told me so. :naughty:

Now, let me preface this next section by first telling you I'm not an experienced welder. On top of that, I broke my mask and was pretty sure there was little to no mig gas left in my bottle. Now...my metal forming skills aren't too bad so I figured it'd be best to cut the opening clean and remove the hinged panel. My plan was to then mount the shifter body and see what would be needed to enclose the body with a sheet metal box, and do so while not making it too big so that it impedes the travel of the bucket seat.

I figured if I could enclose it with a decent box, I could provide enough of a top that a customized boot could be fabbed on a smaller base, and that way I'd have a smaller upright boot to wrap around the shifter. I ended up fabbing some thin sheet metal to close in 3 sides and encase the shifter body. I then got ready to stab it with blind welds since I had no mask. Yup...the tank was also running empty so in addition to a few holes being burned through on the thin 24ga metal, there were a few less than ideal welds on my part (lol). Being persistent, I got some decent spot welds to penetrate everything nicely and it was enough to hold it all together. I got it to fit the body of the shifter and then moved onto the shift rods which would need slotted.


https://i.ibb.co/mBYrnZz/Shifter-9.jpg
Here is an end piece I hammered and dollied out of 24ga metal to form it up along the side of the tunnel.

https://i.ibb.co/sqD2TRg/Shifter-10.jpg
I did the same for the left side and then cut a filler piece to weld between the two sides. All in all, I was happy with it.

https://i.ibb.co/qjkN8R6/Shifter-11.jpg
The issue with the box was the interference with the shift stop bolts on the case. It means all adjustments will have to be done on mock-up before the transmission is installed.

https://i.ibb.co/PMRj4sG/Shifter-14.jpg
Here is the box after it was primed with the front cover already roughed together for the shift rod slotting.

Install - Part IV

The beefy 3/4 shift rod was the one that would present an issue with clearance in the tunnel. It mounts to the outer 3/4 shift leg below the shifter body, and as luck would have it that leg already protruded out beyond the tunnel wall (see image 1 below). I installed the shift rod and wedged it up between the tunnel and the front of the trans side cover. That allowed me to mark the tunnel where 4" of the tunnel would need to be relieved along the back end of the rod (closest to the shifter body).

Instead of pounding or massaging the tunnel outward, I chose to slot the tunnel ahead of the shifter box and this allowed the back half of the shift rod to travel through the side of the tunnel closest to where it would attach to the shifter. After it was slotted, I continued with the sheet metal work and formed a 24ga tapered cover for the outside of the tunnel. This enclosed the slot I made for the shift rod and joined to the front of the shifter box I had just finished. Building this new side cover with a tapered front, it was 7/8" deep at the point where it joined the box, and tapered out to be flush at the leading edge.

https://i.ibb.co/CJWS5j1/Shifter-11b.jpg
Here you can see the outer shift leg for the 3/4 position rod is out beyond the side of the tunnel. This is why it needed to have the side of the tunnel slotted.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz9FqZ3/Shifter-12.jpg
I marked out the chalk lines in the tunnel and transferred them through to the inside before making my lateral cuts.

https://i.ibb.co/7jQf4Z1/Shifter-13.jpg\
Only the first 4" of the slot would have the rod pass out through the side of the tunnel, but I decided to cover it with a longer tapered box that ran 8" forward of the box.

https://i.ibb.co/rdnTsW3/Shifter-15.jpg
Cutting a longer slot than needed, a tapered box was made with it being 7/8" deep at the shifter end and feathered out to nothing at the front.

https://i.ibb.co/9bD9Tpr/Shifter-16.jpg
I added a coat of epoxy to the inner seams and once it was all done and welded into place, I sprayed a few coats of black paint to the tunnel side.

Great Tip ! my Dad hooked me up on this trick on a couple shifter installs !!!

Install - Part V

As things wrapped up with the metalwork, I added some sound deadener material to the inside of the transmission tunnel to help with road noise. I will now move on to glue and carpet the sides of the box and will then install a new black loop carpet on the inner floors while trimming around the shifter box. I also found that by cutting down the original SS3 boot, I could install the smaller B4 boot ring. This will provide a clean and correct SS3 boot finish, but on a smaller footprint.

Hoping this helps the next person who wants to install a vintage shifter in a 69 Camaro. More pics when all is finished up next week.

https://i.ibb.co/x60tcvs/Shifter-17.jpg
Sound deadener added to cancel out road noise.

https://i.ibb.co/BLjjwWq/Shifter-18.jpg
It also helps to reduce the amount of heat that transfers up through the floor.

https://i.ibb.co/pWYbV6h/Shifter-19.jpg
Here's a cut down SS3 shifter boot bought from Summit Racing and fit with a B4 ring from another shift boot I had laying around.

https://i.ibb.co/7YvJbzj/Shifter-20.jpg
Once the carpet is wrapped around the box, this will provide a nice clean upright finish for the boot.

Sweet! Nice work!

Jason

What did you “cut down” on the SS3 boot?

Ryan W31

WOW!!!! Very Nice Work

I cut the top section off the boot Ryan. It was cut along the 5th rib where the only top 4 ribs were left intact for the top of the new box. I then put a smaller B4 ring around the top section of the boot after it was cut down. Pictures are above.