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#21
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Funny this thread came up. About a year ago, give or take, I had this short couple PM's back and forth with Charlie on the '69 BM ZLX car. Sorta came to the to the conclusion the BM cars just hold the value for many the reason's mentioned already.
Seems like Charlie also stated, collectors are going more FACTORY cars for the $$$. Like Yenko's, COPO's etc. These converted cars just don't seem to be the one most collectors want and there soft pricing is being reflected in that. I do think the market as a whole is in for a lot of softening in the coming years. RESTO-MODS ia where it's at and IS a growing market. The 95+ point resto's I think are actually going to be more undesirable as time goes on. SORRY not my thought's but that what I'm hearing from the market. People want to enjoy these cars. Drive them and even race/run hard without fear of hurting there value. I can see more resto-clones being made and possibly leave the full resto's in the garage, but the exact clone or even improved clone as a driving car. Year temps are getting hotter, WE are getting older. So things like auto with OD and AC are getting more desirable. Younger guys want the cars THEY seen, C6 vette's imports and maybe a Grand National. Those were mostly the cars they remember. Much better handling and creature comforts then the 60's stuff. Sorry rant over.
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'58 Apache pick up '78 Z28 4sp being restored '70 W30 convert TRIBUTE '78 Z28 32,000 survivor, Og Yellow paint, AC. '69 CANADIAN Nova SS 396/350 hp '67 CANADIAN Nova SS 427 10 sec. driver '66 CANADIAN Nova SS Race Car '61 CANADIAN Pontiac Bubble top 409+/4sp (SOLD) '31 ALL STEEL Chevy P.U. GONE (EX-WIFES NOW) |
#22
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Just because a car is in a high dollar collection doesnt mean its the pinnacle of that car. The perception is every car in a collection is as good as the best one or two .
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Ebay Auctions http://www.ebay.com/sch/427-king/m.h...=16&_rdc=1 No Fisher priced toys here |
#23
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A friend of mine knew I was looking for another car and called me a couple weeks ago as he had stumbled onto a 69 BM car that's been sitting close to me for many years. The owner was vetting potential buyers for a sale and my friend asked if I wanted to make an offer against two other guys who were trying to buy it. It was then said the number was floating around 100K Cdn at the time where he was looking for slightly more. I said it appeared like the guy was fishing and I wasn't going to play into that game.
I also told him I didn't put as much value on the Motion built cars even if backed up with paper and validated by Joel. I then offered that if I was going to pay up on a car, it would have to be a Copo or a Yenko that was in the registry, and had some provenance with known history. With that said, I'd agree with Charlie that the stronger market is going to remain with factory built cars that are far more legitimate. Even with that, I'm sure there has been a bit of a softening with many of these cars and would expect more of that in the periods to come. Markets change...and that my friends is inevitable.
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I like solid lifter cars, big cams and cars w/ 3 pedals in them. |
#24
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I'm 52, so not sure where I fit into the market right now, but if I had $100K extra specifically to spend on an old car a documented BM would be at the top of the list, higher than a correspondingly documented COPO or Yenko. That's just me as I relate most to the Day 2 hot rods that I grew up with in the 70's and the BM were just *it* back then. Time changes everything, that's just inevitable as stated. Remember when everyone was worried that brass era cars would be tossed aside because all of the older guys who collected them were dying? They're still here, and still collectible. And the hot rod era of the 80s/90's seemed to be dying as well, but I watch those prices and quality cars still get the money. Now, if the whole electric car thing continues to grow, that will change EVERYTHING, eventually, but most of us will be gone or close to it and none of this will matter any longer.
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1968 Camaro Ex-ISCA Show Car John 10:30 |
#25
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I'm 47 and with Mark, if I had a 100k to play with I'd definitely want a Baldwin Motion car over a COPO Camaro or Chevelle. I'd never heard of Baldwin Motion when I was a kid but when I saw Roberto Schneider's rally green 69 Motion Camaro that was on the cover of the August 85 issue of MCR I nearly swallowed my tongue and was instantly in love! If I could have one car on earth it would be that rally green Camaro, I'm sure it will always be the most valuable Motion car on the planet since its such a time capsule. The sale of the two cars in Harrisburg makes me think I might actually be able to afford one in the next 20 years!
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markinnaples (08-10-2019) |
#26
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I'm 68 and have owned a number of muscle cars throughout my life - all drivers. The thought of owning a car and never driving it doesn't make sense to me. If I had $100 grand I would buy a brand new C8 Corvette and use the other $40 grand to buy a 1964/1965 El Camino restomod and give it to my son. He has always wanted one.
I love to look at "trailer queens" and can appreciate what it took to make them look that way. But I really don't think I would want to own one. The temptation to drive it would be too great. |
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PeteLeathersac (08-09-2019) |
#27
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Just an OBTW concerning Motion. While I was living in Lynbrook I owned a 1969 SS396 Camaro. I needed a new shifter. Went to Motion and talked with Joel. We became "store friends." I asked him why he never took advantage of the 1969 Camaro and Chevelle COPO programs. He told me he never knew they existed. To him, making a 427 Camaro or Chevelle meant ordering an L78 SS then doing the engine swap. I'm not sure Marty Schorr knew about them at the time either. Motion was one of the few who was not a dealer like Yenko, Jack Douglas or Berger who sold 427 Camaros and Chevelles. Everyone one of his cars was made specifically for a customer. He didn't stock them. He built them to order.
Last edited by Lee Stewart; 08-09-2019 at 06:47 PM. |
#28
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Interesting how cheap they sold. Kind of falls in line with my thinking. I'd much rather have a COPO or YENKO car so to me I value those a bit higher.
We haven't had any interest in new cars for several years now and have been using classics for transportation. I like em' just the way the factory built them, I don't need them to be modernized. So if I had money to blow a new car is the last thing on the list for me. I'd buy a COPO, then I'd be driving it |
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Xplantdad (08-09-2019) |
#29
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Other than our family driver, I’ve never had the urge to walk into a dealership and drop a large sum of cash on a new sports car that will be worth 60% of that price tag when I’m bored with it and looking for something else. That’s just me... I’d rather plunk less money on a car that’s already depreciated in value and will hold its value for the foreseeable future while I enjoy it.
Whenever you think you understand the market, there are other factors that you could never have anticipated and the market goes in a direction that you never expected. As was said about the brass cars... and other antiques like Model A’s, etc. Many have predicted those markets to crater as their caretakers passed on. When a market softens, a lot of things happen. Some “investors” panic and sell, while other lurking investors perk up and notice the opportunity. I don’t have any idea where the musclecar market is destined to go, but I’m in it for the enjoyment of my cars... they’re all drivers. I’ll jump into my 1970 LS5 convertible survivor to drive 400 miles through the Rockies if the forecast looks good. I’ve done that with my L89 Chevelle too. If they’re too nice to drive, I’ll soon be bored with them. I think that’s partly why survivors are rising in popularity. They can and should be driven to maintain them. I too believe that the elite cars hold their value just like a Picasso painting holds its value. I think there are followers of factory built musclecars and there are other followers of dealer modified cars. That’s what makes us all different. I do, however, think there is a trickle down effect as the elite dealers sell their second tier cars, the second tier investors will seize the opportunity to buy those second tier cars and sell their less desirable cars, and so on. Personally, I see more and more enthusiasts becoming aware of “original paint” and “born with” drivetrains, so I believe the survivor market is still strengthening or developing to some degree. Perhaps that’s attributable to collectors wanting to drive their cars?
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Helmut... Never met a survivor I didn't like Last edited by L78M22Rag; 08-09-2019 at 08:42 PM. |
#30
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I've got a day two COPO Camaro without the original engine and I beat on it just like I would have back in the day if I'd bought it new. If I put 100k to put into a Baldwin Motion car I would beat on it too, if your afraid to drive them you shouldn't own them IMO.
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