2012 Camaro ZL1 - Page 3

**69 Post Sedan** · #21 02-11-2011, 11:26 PM

I caught this on another site. Personally....not bad for the price. Should run with a GT500.

Kurt

http://octanephoto.smugmug.com/Cars/...82973300_JaiAr

StealthBird · #22 02-12-2011, 12:44 AM

First day of the Chicago Auto Show! I will post more pics in another thread. Great show, one of the best I've seen in recent years! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif[/img]

**markjohnson** · #23 02-12-2011, 01:33 AM

Well, leave it to the "new" Chevrolet to absolutely ruin and spoil another famous namesake. First the LT-1, then the LS-6 ........and now the ZL-1. Don't get me wrong, these are great motors and packages but they should have had FRESH names. To a REAL enthusiast, "ZL-1" brings to mind one main thing and that is "ALUMINUM 427 CID"! I recently looked at some of the SLP-versions of the new Camaros with their $70,000 price tags and all I could think about how just FLAT-OUT-STUPID can the powers-that-be with Chevrolet be to NOT learn their lesson after what happened to Camaros/Firebirds back in 2002?! They priced them out of reach (when the economy was good!) and everybody purchased Ford Mustangs instead. Let's just all sit back and watch as history repeats itself again because GM obviously DID NOT learn their lesson. Ford will win the PonyCar War again, undoubtedly.

As far as these new "Tuner" or "Dealer"-built Camaros go.......well, the Camaro has always been the "poor-man's-Corvette" and back in the late-'60's, if you couldn't afford an expensive BBC Corvette, you purchased a cheaper dealer-built Camaro that had the Corvette engine(a 427/454 usually)in it instead. It's actually a VERY SIMPLE formula that should have been followed by one of these new tuner/dealers instead of making the base model customer feel inferior to the customer that just purchased a $100,000 new Camaro. To spend that much money on a new Camaro is just ridiculous and foolish when a Z06 (or even a ZR-1) Corvette is a FAR superior car to the ANY of the new Camaros. They have Aluminum frames, giant tires at four corners, dry-sump oiling, etc. Incredible cars for the money! But, not everyone can afford one of these fine beasts, so somebody should have been buying brand-new Aluminum 427 Z06 Corvette crate engines and installing them into brand new base Camaros and selling them for between $50K-60K. This would've-could've-should've been a simple and basic affordable transplant package. Even in this down-trodden economy, I bet they would've sold the hell out of 'em.

RamAirDave · #24 02-12-2011, 03:25 AM

Yeah, they might've missed on this one, but I guess we'll see.

I would think there are many dealers out there that can give more bang for the buck. There's one locally that sells a 750hp version in the $60K range.

Andy · #25 02-12-2011, 04:31 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Andy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the looks of the car and am seriously contemplating getting one. 550 hp, full GM warranty, and it will be priced competitively with other cars in the market segment. The ZL1 was built by Chevrolet back in 69 and that's how it should be built today. The aftermarket build cars will not hold the value a factory produced car will imho. </div></div>

I think the aftermarket cars will still be the pick of the lot 20 years from now. The buyer of a Nickey, BM, SLP and others can still create a car with option content that will make these cars individual. The factory ZL-1 after the basic cosmetics will be the same cars and to some degree mass produced unless GM limits production.

Also let's compare HP numbers. The SLP ZL-1 makes 750 HP. The new factory car could have been made with an LS-9 like the ZR-1 then you have an apples to apples comparison for the top dog engine just like the 1969 COPO (ZL-1).

New factory "ZL-1" was intended to be the Z28. IMO... With the engine and the modifications from the factory the switch to the name ZL1 seems odd and again out of sinc with what the car's specifications turned out to be. </div></div>

They didn't build the car with the LS9 because it would be out of the price range of most Camaro buyers, and it would be higher than other cars in the market segment (GT500 and SRT8 392 Challenger). They are trying to sell cars, and make money, not have them collect dust in showrooms like the originals did unfortunately in 1969. No one could afford them. Personally, I enjoy seeing Camaros on the road and since Chevrolet chose this route with the ZL1, I believe we will see many more on the roads to come.

As far as performance goes, the LSA can make the same horsepower as the SLP equipped car spending 5k or less on the following mods: full exhaust, a pulley for the blower, possibly porting the blower, a camshaft and a high flowing cold air intake. Surely an individual can get 625 rwhp out of the new ZL1 with these mods if they are getting over 500 rwhp out of the new SS with a camshaft and full bolt ons.

Speaking of the SLP cars, I have only seen one since they have came out, and that was last summer. I've seen more original ZL1s than these cars.

Referring to the usage of the term "aftermarket", this was a direct comparison to 1969 Camaros. A factory produced #s matching ZL1 typically brings more at action than a #s matching Yenko or high performance dealer C.O.P.O. Camaro, at least from what I've personally seen.

I honestly believe the ZL1 nameplate was used for the Camaro because they brought back the ZR1 nameplate for the Corvette.

Andy · #26 02-12-2011, 04:39 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markjohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as these new "Tuner" or "Dealer"-built Camaros go.......well, the Camaro has always been the "poor-man's-Corvette" and back in the late-'60's, if you couldn't afford an expensive BBC Corvette, you purchased a cheaper dealer-built Camaro that had the Corvette engine(a 427/454 usually)in it instead. It's actually a VERY SIMPLE formula that should have been followed by one of these new tuner/dealers instead of making the base model customer feel inferior to the customer that just purchased a $100,000 new Camaro. To spend that much money on a new Camaro is just ridiculous and foolish when a Z06 (or even a ZR-1) Corvette is a FAR superior car to the ANY of the new Camaros. They have Aluminum frames, giant tires at four corners, dry-sump oiling, etc. Incredible cars for the money! </div></div>

Well said. If the new ZL1 is much over 50k, then its just not worth the $. Personally, I expect it to be in the 48-55K range. If it breaks out of that category, then it only makes sense to upgrade to a slightly used 07/08/09 C6 Z06 for 45-50K.

AutoInsane · #27 02-12-2011, 04:55 AM

This car should have been called the Z28. But.... I must admit, it is pretty damn cool getting a supercharged 550hp engine from the factory! The interior also looks pretty nice too!! But it just kills me they called it the ZL1. Just does not sit right....

Oh,the goofy front end with all of those fog lights should go!

**PxTx** · #28 02-12-2011, 06:02 AM

Yeah, there is debate about what engine this car should have and what name. How about the suspension? If it is using the CTS-V stuff seems pretty cutting edge. Are the aftermarket cars capable of offering an equally performing package?

Seems with all of the electronic monitoring for the suspension and breaking and the fact the CTS-V is holding at Nürburgring, this might be just as important to discuss.

jannes_z-28 · #29 02-12-2011, 09:35 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pxtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, there is debate about what engine this car should have and what name. How about the suspension? If it is using the CTS-V stuff seems pretty cutting edge. Are the aftermarket cars capable of offering an equally performing package?

Seems with all of the electronic monitoring for the suspension and breaking and the fact the CTS-V is holding at Nürburgring, this might be just as important to discuss. </div></div>

Agree totally!, with the magnetic suspension and this engine package this car would be a killer.

I think that most of todays Camaro buyers are to young to relate to '69 ZL1s in a sentimental way that we "old" guys do. Most of todays buyers weren't even born in 69.

I think we should see it in another perspective. To have a new Camaro with a ZL1 badge will bring recognition and curiosity to the original ZL1. Look at the pressrelease from GM, they refer to the heritage of old Camaros.

It is also good for the Camaro brand to get a hot cool performer. I think that the Z28 name has lost some of its true potential with the gen 3 and 4 cars. They weren't really any performance cars to talk about compared to the rest of the lineup.

There will always be a market for dealer tuned Camaros but for the average guy to go and buy a 550Hp Camaro is OK for most customers. The true enthusiasts will always want more but they are few.

Jan

70 copo · #30 02-12-2011, 01:17 PM

The car as it is is likely not a Z28 simply due to the fact that GM could not skirt the build certifications and keep the car within the traditional Camaro price range. Car is going to be $20K over the price of a 1SS. Andy states above in post 443246 above that the LS-9 would have limited sales. I agree, however the ZL-1 name was associated with the COPO cars and was the top engine, so if you are true to history, you should be accurate in repeating it.

There is no denying this car was intended to be a Z28 from the get go and the car was in clay as early as 2008 with that great induction hood that SLP grabbed.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28710

Simply using the name z28 and cutting the fat to get the cost down would have boosted sales across the line. Instead we are left with a tarted up hood and some badges. Ford gets it with the new boss 302. Chevy might get it in (typical GM fashion) in 12 to 18 months from now. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/sleep.gif[/img]