Maher ZL1 in Corvette Fever: Question

[zl1vette]

First of all let me state that this is not intended to start a flame war nor make accusations. I ask questions and seek facts.

The March 2006 issue of Corvette Fever has a four page article on John Maher's 1969 Monaco Orange Corvette and is claiming that this is the second documented ZL1 Corvette found in existence. Thus it would also make it ZL1 Corvette no. 3 including the yellow and white ZL1's. The white ZL1 does not have its tank sticker, but two previous owners have signed affidavits as to its originality.

Corvette Fever shows what it reports as the origninal invoice for the car, and part of the original tank sticker.

What I find strange is that the invoice lists "Special Turbo Jet 427" and then the price of $3000. On the tank sticker next to the "02ZL1AA" code it lists "Special Turbo Jet 427".

Now it has been my understanding that the ZL1 option was an aluminum block for the L88. In other words, there was no ZL1 engine itself. The customer had to order the L88 engine and the ZL1 option, which is what the whole, original build sheet for the yellow, fully documented ZL1 shows. (Vette Vues magazine, March 1980, page 10). The reproduction invoice for the white ZL1 also has the L88 listed.

Perhaps this was a typo on the tank sticker, but unfortunately the rest of the sticker is missing where it would have indicated that an L88 was ordered for the car.

The invoice however is complete, with all options listed, but again there is no mention of the L88. The VIN number is listed as ending in 10209. What is also of note is that the white ZL1 VIN number indicates that it was Corvette number
6753 built in 1969, and the yellow ZL1 VIN number is 29219. Therefore, if we accept the authenticity of the white ZL1 and its VIN number, that would indicate that the orange ZL1 was built in between.

My question: was the ZL1 option available without the L88?

One could conjecture that GM might have done this as a price break to help sell the RPO, but then Fred Gibb ordered 50 COPO ZL1 Camaros all at once and he did not get a price break.

In the Camaro the ZL1 was not listed this way, but then that was a COPO car, and technically there was no L88 nor ZL1 RPO for the Camaro.


BW

[rpoz11]

"My question: was the ZL1 option available without the L88?"

I doubt it,... if you look at what every ZL1 came with internally, you'll see GM's intentions. It was a short lived run, and I believe had only one purpose!!!!
The de-tuned version played with by GM , to me, has not ever shown what was run internally, though considered, never made it to the showroom nor production.

So for your answer, NO!

[Chevy454]

If I remember right from talking to John, his car was the magazine test car...and went from white to hugger orange at some time early? Maybe it got a price break since it was an early, early press car?

[ratbox]

definately not an expert . but i disagree in the statement that zl-1's were the same engine as l-88 only with aluminum block. i'm not sure what else(probably more) .but i know that the cam's were differant . L-88 -#3925535 .540 intake/.560 exhaust-duration 326/334. ZL-1 -#3959180 .560 intake/.600 exhaust- duration 322/334.
.also found on HD parts list-pushrods # 3942415,3942416(intake/exhaust)with listing desription "Pushrod,intake,427-CID w/heavy duty aluminum block.7/16-in.diameter."so obviously they used a differant pushrod. and i'm sure there are other differances also. ie; possibly carb - maybe more.there's another interesting part listed on "HD" list-#3967811, despription "Crankshaft-1968(?)-'69 aluminum-block 427 CID.3-49/64-in. stroke,5140 steel forging w/cross-drilled mains.Nitride finnish on journals.2.1985-in.rod,2.748-in. main journal diameters.(Ident.7115). both of those parts have a desription that mention for "aluminum block", so they must be specific.and their are probably other parts and processes TO parts(treatments) that are differant. but it definately is a differant motor with differant specs. i have know idea about build sheet's and rpo's(possible two step rpo order to get one-manditory l-88?) for these cars as i have never seen one. but i would doubt it. maybe the build sheets with rpo l-88 also were put there so the builders would know to put on the rest of the applicable components (like special brakes and suspension) as they might have already been instructed as to what an l-88 car consisted of and how to build one. and the zl-1 rpo was less familiar. so a helpful guideline for assembly workers? i don't know, just a possible guess.that's all i could remember off the top and with a quick look in my library. note- remember not related to production cars, but they also made ZL-1's that were different from production car ZL-1's. that had some differant parts from normal ZL-1's for Can-am applications ie; even higher lift cam(.600/.600) and gear drive. probably even more differant parts(and massaging) here too.

[JChlupsa]

Notice where it states the ORG ZL1 engine was at home in the garage.

[zl1vette]

Ratbox,

You are definitely correct that the RPO L88 and RPO ZL1 are different motors with more than just different cylinder blocks. My question has to do with how it was written up on the build sheet.


BW

[Rowdy Rat]

[ QUOTE ]
You are definitely correct that the RPO L88 and RPO ZL1 are different motors with more than just different cylinder blocks.

[/ QUOTE ]

While the first design L-88 differed considerably from the ZL-1, the second design L-88 and ZL-1 were essentially the same with the only difference being the aluminum block. Open chamber heads, the bigger camshaft, the new Holley DP carb... all were part of the second design L-88 as well as the ZL-1. A few second design L-88s were built early in the 1969 model year (around November/December 1968 to get them in the hands of racers for Daytona), but the vast majority were built after the strike in mid-1969.

As far as the ZL-1 in question, I also have the 1980 Vette Vues and was immediately curious why it differed from the Corvette Fever article... I even had someone email some high resolution photos of the Daytona yellow car which he had to make sure that I wasn't seeing things.

Your question in the initial post is a good one. There are differences between the paperwork for orange car and the yellow car that should be researched.

One piece of information that would be very helpful in my personal research is if someone has in their possession or has access to an original window sticker for a Hechler Chevrolet (Virginia) delivered Corvette in the latter half of 1969. If so, I would very much like to get a photocopy of it (I'll be happy to pay for your trouble in getting it).

Regards,

Stan Falenski

[Bill Scott]

I grew up in the same area where this car come from. I worked at "Ferrante Oldsmobile" from May of 1969 to May of 1970 before joining the military, and helped crew the owners son Anthony's F-85 coupe Ultra Stock car from Vandergrift PA. Racing mainly at "Keystone Dragway" in New Alexandrea PA., where John used to race his Blue 68 L-88. The main reason I remember the blue L-88, was because it had the Black vinyl top on it. What a pretty car it was !!! It was the first time I'd seen a Vette with a vinyl top, so it always stuck in my mind. It's my understanding that when John traded the L-88 in for this ZL-1, he kept the roof from the L-88 for this car. The first time I ever seen the ZL-1, John had come into the Olds dealership to visit with Anthony, (Drag racing buddies), and as someone else said in a earlier post, You could hear it comming way before you ever seen it show up. Not only was every window in the dealership vibrating so hard I thought they would all shatter, but the ground all around was also vibrating like a mini earth quake was happening. Quite the impressive car for a young Chevy fan to witness. What always amazed me though is the fact that he could drive this car on the streets of Pennsylvania. There is no way this car could ever pass the strict inspection laws in PA., unless it was 100% from the factory. It might have something to do with him being a PA. State Trooper, but nobody seemed to question it's legality at the time. Us nobodys on the other hand, were getting tickets for having Air Shocks that when inflated, threw our headlights out of line, and heaven forbid if you put a set of glass packs or any mods at all to the exhaust system, and here John was driving around with virtually unrestricted headers and side pipes that literally rocked the ground you were standing on. Hell, we couldn't even have tinted windows legally. If we did tint our windows, and got away with it, we had to scrape it all off again when the next inspection come due, or they wouldn't pass it. Back to the ZL-1, I seen John a couple time drive it on some local hill climb runs in the area too, and it did rather well on the hills and road course. This was the first time I ever heard the car in competition other than at the drags, and it was very noisy and impressive on the road course's too. It was my understanding too, that he had all the original needed paper work for the car too till he got divorced from his first wife, and that she had done something very wrong to it. thus destroying a very important piece of automobile history in the process. A woman scorned, go figure, but she deserves to have her ass kicked for this one !!! Another thing I remember about the ZL-1 was the first time I saw John run it at Keystone, he was up against his old L-88 4 speed car, and the old L-88 won by quite a good margin. I'm not sure John had the car quite set up for the drags yet as I think it was the first time he took it out. Although both cars were very nice,the ZL-1 just had a way of out classing the old L-88 in every way !!!! Thanks for the memories John !!!!

[agtw31]

bill,
you have a pm

[SBR]

Stan is correct, most people do not realize that there were two types of L88 motors. The first design was made from 67 to June of 69 and was replaced with the second design motor for the remainder of the 69 production run that receieved the open chamber heads and several other improvements that were implemented on the ZL1s. I spoke with John at the 04 Vettefest and he sure did seem like a good guy. Interesting that the tank sheet differs from the yellow car.