which is best- c.e. or date correct motor?

deuce-less · #1 02-25-2007, 12:02 AM

providing the original motor is no longer available for a car in restoration...

which is best?

a c.e. block, or a date correct engine?

opinions on values?

**firstgenaddict** · #2 02-25-2007, 01:43 AM

with paperwork for a CE replacement... the CE... sans paperwork... go with the date correct Sufix code correct engine... of course without a vin on it if possible... of course this is just MHO

L34Pace · #3 02-25-2007, 01:58 AM

A date correct engine would be considered a restoration engine and best suited for judging. A CE engine is correct only if it is original to the car through GM warranty replacemant during its first 5 years or 50K miles of service.

68SSCamaro · #4 02-25-2007, 02:04 AM

This is only my opinion but if you are going to build a show car you need to know the judging rules for the show involved.

I personally have a date and code correct block and date correct trans for my car. VINs don't match but it's the best I can do.

**427king** · #5 02-25-2007, 02:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A date correct engine would be considered a restoration engine and best suited for judging.

[/ QUOTE ] Last i knew the NCRS allows more points for a CE pad than a blank pad.Although i could be wrong. There are alot of cars with CE motors that dont have validation of having them. They are still the best next to the original motor in my mind. If i had to pick a better option than a decked dated block,id pick a dated stamped block with the same horsepower designation as the car

nuch_ss396 · #6 02-25-2007, 02:19 AM

Chuck,

What's considered validation? A dealer receipt for the
engine swap? Can't those be faked too?

Steve

**TimG** · #7 02-25-2007, 02:32 AM

Even a true, verified CE motor could have a casting date way later than the build date of the car. It could also have a casting number that would not be correct for the car. You could, in fact, receive no points due to late casting date, wrong casting number, no VIN derivative and no assembly derivative.

What if a person bought a new '68 Corvette built in October of '67? It may have been purchased in December of '67 and the original motor went south 11 months later, in November of '68. The dealer gets a CE warranty block and that block may have a '69 part number on it because the factory is now kicking out '69 equipment. The casting date may be September of 1968, 11 months after the car was built and probably more than one year later than the original motor was cast. CE verification or not, this motor will receive no points for the engine. In this case, I'd rather have an August 1968 replacement block with the correct casting number and sell the CE block to a guy with a 1969 Corvette.

**firstgenaddict** · #8 02-25-2007, 02:44 AM

I'm with Chuck... a decked dated block is the last option IMHO... decked blocks are an unknown... if you can find a correct suffix block that would be the best... if it happens to have no VIN derivative it is a bonus... they are few and far between though... and for Gods sake if you do find one without the VIN please don't stamp one... that is

JohnZ · #9 02-25-2007, 04:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Last i knew the NCRS allows more points for a CE pad than a blank pad.

[/ QUOTE ]

In NCRS judging, a blank pad gets a 25-point deduct for no engine plant stamp, a 25-point deduct for no VIN derivative stamp, and a 38-point deduct if the pad surface has been decked; if it's a factory-broached blank pad, there's no pad surface deduction.

A "CE" block pad is judged exactly the same way (-25 for the incorrect engine plant stamp, -25 for the missing VIN stamp, and no surface deduction if the factory-broached pad is showing and is typical).

Most of the block points are allocated to the casting number and date, and less for the pad, and they're judged sequentially (unique only to block judging):

If the block casting number is incorrect, a 350-point deduct is taken and block judging stops right there.

If the casting number is correct, the casting date is judged; if the date is incorrect, a 175-point deduct is taken and block judging stops right there.

If the casting number and date are correct, the pad is judged; if the engine plant stamp is incorrect/not typical/missing, it's a 25-point deduct. Same for the VIN derivative stamp. If the pad surface isn't typical or has added marks, it's a 38-point deduct. There are no partial deductions for the three pad elements - each either gets full credit or a full deduction, and if a pad has paint on it, an 88-point deduction is taken for all three pad elements, as it can't be adequately judged.

**TimG** · #10 02-25-2007, 04:17 AM

Thanks, John. Most likley, a CE block would be a later casting number and certainly a later casting date than correct for a car.