1970 L78 NOVA SS 396 4-SPEED DOCUMENTED

[Allen]

Okay, I'll step into this one even though I really don't have a dog in this fight. However, I hate to see something that appears to be misrepresented - especially considering that I'd love to have a car like this and would really be pi$$ed if I paid huge dollars for something that was not as I was lead to believe. Ask yourself if you'd be upset too.

It really comes down to one man's story against another. I won't take sides, but will present the information that was given to me and let you decide.

This comes from the person that has the facts, first-hand knowledge, details, and some back-up information. In the interest of clearing up a few questions on this forum, I'll relay the information that I have, including a summary in his own words.

The Nova on Ebay appears to really be a factory SS 396 L78 car. There is no dispute about that. I've attached a copy of the order sheet. The issue surrounds the original "born-with" matching-numbers engine that is advertised to be with it.

That Nova on Ebay and the one that my friend has were owned by the same person in the 70's. Both Novas were/are nearly identical in color and options (forest green, bench seats, 4-speeds, steel rims with dog-dish caps, etc). The primary differences were in the engine (L34 vs. L78, green vs. black interior, and exterior decoration (body side moldings vs. window trim).

As mentioned, one Nova was a factory L34 and the other was an L78. The L34 Nova was and is still a super nice low-mileage car that was taken good care of. The L78 had the issues typical with a Canadian weathered car and was the rougher car of the two.

The owner at the time decided to sell the factory L78 Nova and keep the factory L34 Nova. However, prior to selling it, he did a motor swap so that he'd have the more powerful L78 motor in the best condition car (the L34).

The transplanted L78 Nova (with its L34 engine) went on its merry way and is the yellow car you have seen prior to the restoration that is documented here.

http://www.angelfire.com/ut2/dpmusclecars/70novass.html

At this point, the Nova was still sporting the L34 from my friend's car. Somewhere in the restoration process, it become a matching-numbers L78 again. This can be a problem when the original L78 motor is still firmly anchored in another Nova.

Bottom line: There appears to be no blown-up grenaded engines, nor photos of one. There is only the factory original L78 for the car, and a "created" one in it now.

Here it is in his own words.
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The story behind the "matching numbers" documented L-78 1970 Nova SS on ebay is this. The VIN to this car is 114270W358856. This car was owned, along with the present day 1970 Nova SS Big Block car which i now own 114270W298215, by one and the same fellow in Hamilton, Ontario in the mid 70's to mid 80's.

I have had contact with this prior owner for several years now and he has told me of the engine swap between the two cars which he himself did back in '78. I have also multiple vintage photos of both cars together with the engines pulled, side by side, awaiting the swap, and a long history on both cars when they resided as a pair. I have had the 358856 Nova on my radar screen for a while now, and have viewed it as recent as '06 when it was Old Yellow and owned by Jim H. in Hamilton.

I viewed the car personally and know the engine code to have been T0324 CTX 298215 at that recent date, the match to my present car.

I tried to work a deal on the purchase of either the car or just the motor so as to get my "original" factory motor back but it didn't work out. In 'spring of '06 the 358856 Nova was sold and taken to auction in Toronto and purchased by the current seller. I saw a link to the restoration of this car online by the seller and immediately recognized the car as the one which I knew to be the mate to the one I now own.

Upon asking the seller about the engine after restoration, he quickly offered me the #'s on the engine pad and they matched exactly the engine pad #'s on the car I now own. My present engine being the one that was "factory installed" in the 358856 Nova on Ebay.

When confronted with this, the seller quickly said that the engine in the car was pulled and he "LOCATED" the factory original engine by some stroke of luck since he purchased the car at auction.

So, now there exist 2 1970 Nova Big Block cars with the same exact engine code and VIN. One being the original and one a "re-stamp".

Which one is the real deal? You be the judge. He kept asking for a photo of the stamping on mine, and with the engine installed and hoses and lines in the way, it is no easy task. One can see it clearly with the naked eye but all the camera can catch is the initial "heavier stamp" of the TO603CKO...the 358856 is visible to the naked eye but with many attempts it can't be captured by the camera lens. I tried for over an hour today and couldn't get a sight on the # through the lens. I invite anyone to view it and it will clearly show the VIN to be the same exact one to the 358856 car for sale now.

I know my engine to be the one and true L-78 engine and not tampered with in the past 37 years.

Maybe the seller should share with us how he happened to come across this engine after almost 30 years of seperation and multiple owners........ should be interesting.

This is the true story behind the 2 Nova Big Blocks..coming full circle once again.

P.S. the b/w copy of the insurance binder is to show that both cars were owned by the same owner in Hamilton, Ont. back in the day along with some other truck. This puts both cars together at the time the swap was done.

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Here are some photos:








PLEASE note that nothing slanderous to the seller of that car or anyone else is intended by the post. It's just a presentation of some history.

Unfortunately, none of this would even be discussed if the car was advertised or being sold as a factory L78 with a non-original motor. That's not such a bad thing at all either. All Novas are cool, whether matching numbers or not.

Anyway, that's the information that I have. Again, nothing is being posted with the intention of disrespecting anyone or calling them out. It's all about the car itself.

If I wanted to really start the mud-slinging, I'd have posted copies of the hateful and threatening emails that were sent by the seller to the gentleman who merely inquired about the and mentioned actually having the factory born-with motor. Those notes weren't cool at all and were quite rude and nasty. It's quite a shame that people need to conduct themselves that way. People tend to lose their civility when blinded by greed (just my observation).

To wrap this up, here's a shot of that L78 motor that SHOULD be in that Nova on Ebay.

[SuperNovaSS]

You mean you wouldn't pull a few hoses and brackets to get your original engine back. Now that is lazy.



Jason

[Belair62]

Thanks Allen....now people can decide what they want to think if they are interested in the car...

[Allen]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Allen....now people can decide what they want to think if they are interested in the car...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to quote Rodney King and say "Why can't we all just get along?".

The cars are what they are. You'd think people could amicably work things out, especially given the unique story about the cars and the fact that both they and their respective motors still exist.

I'm just not a fan of the whole restamping thing, whether the seller did it or someone sold him a restamped motor. With the dollars being asked for a nice car like that, no one needs to be mislead if there is more information available.

[Belair62]

The fact that th cars and both engines still exists is pretty cool. Restamping sucks. Maybe after the dust settles this can get worked out . People just love drama.

[Charley Lillard]

Thankyou Allen for presenting a polite factual seeming manner.

[427king]

Im so used to seeing stamp pads with straight stampings.

[joey]

[ QUOTE ]
Im so used to seeing stamp pads with straight stampings.

[/ QUOTE ]Thats funny you should say that jerry m said that one of mine looked like a amature restamp because 2 of the numbers are not perfectly aligned he said they used a gang stamp and they should be perfect oh well I really dont care I like the car any way

[Charley Lillard]

Can we see a pic of it Joey ?

[Hylton]

Now about that paid members only can post in classifieds......