E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone! - Page 5

**bergy** · #1 11-04-2010, 08:55 PM

I've had our corporate attorneys look at this pretty closely. Legal decision involving these matters are made on the preponderance of the evidence. Think of it this way, if a vin stamp(s) was cut out of the cowl of a car and welded into another car, would the other car then become the legit car? Or would the original car with the two holes on the cowl and the vin tag be the legit car? I'm not saying that this is exactly what happened in the case at hand, but I'm just illustrating that the preponderance of the evidence and not just the physical vin stamp in the cowl is used to determine legitimacy. With the value of these cars, fake cowl stamps will get better and better until even the experts are fooled.

Justbad Joe · #2 11-05-2010, 05:57 AM

There's a silver deuce with the rewelded scenerio (rebody at BJ), and I believe a hugger orange yenko dragcar camaro with tt and vin removed still leaving hidden vin under the fender with the other scenerio, (oops dragcar found,rebody out there), ask those people involved their opinions.
I may have missed it in 18 pgs., but what does the trim tag on the car say?
Can you change a cowl(firewall) without changing the tt or vin tag?
Joe
Trying not to be an a$$.
Howie don't respond!!

rpoz11 · #3 12-06-2010, 08:46 AM

al8apex:

I prefer to agree with sYc 's quote below.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sYc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Laying all emotion and opinions a side, need to look at this from the legal standpoint.

A car’s legal VIN number is what is stamped in the metal, not the VIN plate, thus you have a legit ’69 Camaro Z-clone without a title..

The stampings carry all of the weight with law enforcement, and were stamped for a very good reason, because VIN plates can be easily removed.

If the VIN does not come up in the police data base, might be able to a title for the clone Z.

Next you have a VIN plate with a title that belongs to another car, not the clone Z. At any point in time, if someone comes up with the original body with VIN stampings, they can claim the VIN tag and title because legally they own the car that the VIN tag belongs to. </div></div>

**bergy** · #4 10-07-2010, 11:54 PM

Tom - that must mean the the ZL1 (that has been discussed on this site) that has no stamp in the metal is not a legal car! I don't agree - someone did a great deal of research and proved that the body with the cut up cowl was the ZL1 car. Again, you are assuming that the "original body" is out there some where. Why do you reject the possibility of this body being the original body with a replaced cowl section without having any knowledge of this car. No one disputes the fact that the cowl stamp car was a total loss in 1982. Please understand that, if I just want a Yenko, I can certainly go out and buy one. The realy fun part of this hobby for me is the intrigue of the research. Many of you walked through that experience with me on this site (the burnish brown RS COPO). There were even some people on this site who helped me a great deal in the search. That's great community. We should cheer each other on - not reach conclusions before that facts are all in. I'm just a simple hobbiest - this isn't my living and I very seldom sell any of my cars. I don't make money on cars. I enjoy the meticulous search to find old owners and the stories of these great cars. I've done it enough times to know that conclusions shouldn't be made until all of the facts (in the form of sworn statements from previous owners) are in. I have a complete, sworn history of the burnish brown car including the experiences that each owner had with the car. That's my passion. As far as I know, none of the "experts" have even spoken to the Yenko owners of 30 and 40 years ago. That's what I love and it's what I will do for this car.
Just think of this Tom - if I went out to my garage and removed the passenger fender and looked under the heater box, and found the Yenko vin stamped in that area - would it make any difference?

sYc · #5 10-08-2010, 12:09 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Just think of this Tom - if I went out to my garage and removed the passenger fender and looked under the heater box, and found the Yenko vin stamped in that area - would it make any difference? </div></div>

IMO, would make a very big difference.

I am not assuming anything, as I have no idea if the original body is out there or not, I just wanted to add the legal aspects of the case, which are based on previous such cases.

bulletpruf · #6 10-08-2010, 03:14 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The realy fun part of this hobby for me is the intrigue of the research. Many of you walked through that experience with me on this site (the burnish brown RS COPO). There were even some people on this site who helped me a great deal in the search. That's great community. We should cheer each other on - not reach conclusions before that facts are all in. I'm just a simple hobbiest - this isn't my living and I very seldom sell any of my cars. I don't make money on cars. I enjoy the meticulous search to find old owners and the stories of these great cars. I've done it enough times to know that conclusions shouldn't be made until all of the facts (in the form of sworn statements from previous owners) are in. I have a complete, sworn history of the burnish brown car including the experiences that each owner had with the car. That's my passion. As far as I know, none of the "experts" have even spoken to the Yenko owners of 30 and 40 years ago. That's what I love and it's what I will do for this car. </div></div>

Well said. I would likely have purchased the car as well. Dumb? Depends on your perspective, but I also get a kick out of the detective work. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Good luck,

Scott

**bergy** · #7 10-08-2010, 12:38 AM

Thanks for having an open mind Tom - most people would probably go right out in the garage and tear the fender off! Frankly, it makes little difference to me without ownership history and sworn statements as to what happened with this car. Restorers can do amazing things when starting with very little (sometimes nothing!). If I can't get ownership history and the sworn explanation of what a car has been through - I'm not interested. People can make up paperwork, create cars out of nothing, etc., but when past owners put their reputation (and liability) on the line by making sworn statements - it's pretty compelling. Heck, there are people who would look at a Yenko vin stamp in the heater area and just say "so? - it's just a bunch of bolt on parts and conflicting stamps". Documenting what happened is everything to me on this car.

**bergy** · #8 10-08-2010, 01:45 AM

We're starting to talk past each other Marlin. I've said over and over that documented, sworn, ownership history is everything to me. We have all seen the unfortunate progression of ever improving fakes in our beloved hobby (documents and entire cars faked). Improvements in technique will continue, but continuous ownership history that is sworn and verifiable is difficult or impossible to fake. Just a rookie suggestion, but you folks may want to start a public Yenko record that mimics the Shelby Registry. I can look up my Cobra in the registry and see the complete ownership history. If a car doesn't have ownership history in the registry (or just "appears&quot

, no one is interested in it. The public registry really enhances the value of good cars. There are some pretty prominant people in the Shelby Registry who don't seem to worry much about the privacy issue.

**Charley Lillard** · #9 10-08-2010, 06:23 AM

Who woke up Schone ? The one on the top of the cowl is different than the Yenko Vin tag that the car has.

jannes_z-28 · #10 10-08-2010, 11:07 AM

Since the whole cowl/firewall part has been replaced the hidden stamp under the heatercover probably has the same number as the one under the cowl.

I guess the car had rusted under the windscreen and they got this totaled body to take fresh metal out of. Easiest way of repair it would be to cut all off and weld another piece back on.

Bergy, go on with your detective work, I agree with you, it is an important part of our hobby to dig out old info about cars.

Jan

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