1969 Trans Am Convert Clone

[supergonzo]

"1969
400/350
400RAIII/366 (no relation to the RAII, despite similar rating.)
400RAIV/370"


This is slightly off but , here goes beating a dead horse.
I have the Pontiac sales brochures from both 1968 and 1969 early and revised additions, I found them the other day and looked up what Pontiac had in their announcements.

The 68 stuff is correct as written before.
In 69'
The engine GTO options were

400/350 HP standard GTO
400/360 HO (Known as the HO engine)
400/366HP RAIV... Originally rated as 366hp in Pontiac Brochures early on. With Arrival of the Judge this became 370HP. And the 400/360 HP HO motor with ram air in the Judge became LATER known as the RAIII. You could buy a 400/360 HO motor non ram air in either a GTO or rated lower in a Firebird.

The Only differences in any of the D-port motors was the camshaft durations, they all had the same lift. And used all of the same engine parts. The HO motors and the RAIII as LATER known used the same camshafts, but the RAIII obviously had ram air. If you were to order a 69' Judge it came standard with a "RAM AIR 400" there is NO mention of a RAIII motor.

The previous comment about RAIV's name coming about because of 4 ways to get air into the motor was correct. Until they found the system to complicated to build. It had NOTHING to do with the chronological order of 400 ram air engines.

http://www.stockmusclecars.com/68-engines.jpg

http://www.stockmusclecars.com/69-engines.jpg Again there are NO stickers or emblems on any GTO's or Firebirds designating a RA1 / RAII / RAIII engine.
Only ram air or RAIV

[442w30]

You are incorrect about the 400HO/RAIII for the GTO. In 1969, the 400HO was only available with Ram Air, hence the Ram Air 400 or RAIII. NEVER was it available without Ram Air.

Also, to clarify, the first Ram Air engine to receive a number designation was the RAII. The first Ram Air to receive decals were the 1969s.

[supergonzo]

442w30 .........dude, I am looking at the Original Pontiac 1969 sales album literture(printed by Pontiac), there was a 400HO without ram air. Look at the image I posted.

Its getting kind of silly now, who cares anyway, they are basically the same engine, one with ram air and one without.

If you personally want to believe there was no 400HO engine in 1969. Well thats up to you. I'm done with this silly topic.

[442w30]

Hey, if you can't deal with a civil discussion, that's cool. You were the one who brought it back from the dead.

I am curious why you say "it's from the brochure, so it must be true!" when they obviously got the hp wrong.

Brochures are not a good source of accuracy.

If you look at 1969 GTOs, you'll see that all the 400HO cars are Ram Air cars. Look at documented production figures and you'll find the same thing.

[Steve_Hoog]

69 T/8 M.T. Ram Air-III or H.O.
further done
All V/8 400 exc, Ram Air or H.O.
then
69 F/8-T/8 Ram Air-III, IV or H.O.

F=Firebird T=Tempest (GTO)
8=V8

I also remember 69 GTO's coming through our dealership without Ram Air but having H.O.

This was on the paperwork from GM, unfortunately some one took that from my possession years ago.

The above GM published catalog should do it on the matter? Also note I had already posted this catalog page in this thread, the answers were before you all along.

[Steve_Hoog]

"further done" should be "further down"

This is a perfect example of why NOT to have tropical drinks in the back seat of a Pinto with Belair.

[Belair62]

[442w30]

Should do it on the matter? Not quite. Trying to gather evidence. Will be back, Watston!

[Jeff H]

I don't want to sound like a negative person here, but dealer brochures and parts catalog listings have no meaning to what actually happened. Look at the 1971 LS6 Chevelle engine option that is listed everywhere, but was never actually available. Also, the MN6 dual disc clutch for 69 Camaros, it was listed, but none were ever ordered or delivered. I think it will really come down to looking at original documentation and original engines to determine what the engines were called. What does PHS say and what does GM of Canada show for these engines?

[MrsBillyBobcat]

[ QUOTE ]

I also remember 69 GTO's coming through our dealership without Ram Air but having H.O.



[/ QUOTE ]

You do? Weren't you only 5 or 6 years old in 1969?