Survivor ?????

[chads454Ls6]

Here is my 26k bb rs z. It was hit in 1970 and repainted except for the stripes. it is all original drivetrain and motor has never been out. all orginal smog,wires,cap,rotor everything under the hood. Is this a survivor?

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
Tim, In all due respect....I don't think musclecar people think like Vette people!

[/ QUOTE ]

Speak for yourself Sam. The vette guys are great and have done of research and set standards, which helped pave the was for other brands.

[Salvatore]

Not if it was repainted IMO. All original but????

[69hurstSC]

There are so many vague words in the collector car hobby that always get people debating. Clone, Survivor, Musclecar... there are no right or wrong answers. Just individual groups that set their own standards for meeting said criteria. No one is ever right, and no one is ever wrong.

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
Not if it was repainted IMO. All original but????

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't get hung up on the term survivor. They defined it and trademarked it in late 70's early 80's. That standard has not changed. As I mentioned above....your definition of survivor is referred to as a benchmark car. If your not satisfied come up with your own term.

In Vintage Camaro we use our own terms, our highest level is legend which is similar to benchmark, however we include inspect/certify the underside via a lift which allows us more access to critical components and hardware. We also have 3 other levels based on how unrestored/original the car is. There are many cars that are repainted yet absolutely untouched in all other areas and they need to be preserved and recogonized.

An unrestored car is so much more than just paint. For example yes Charley's car is mostly original paint (great), but 90 percent of his pics were of components, hardware, finishes , inspection marks, stickers and such (most of the questions and interest were in those areas). That to me is where the assembly secrets are and where we gain the most knowledge of the "factory assembly processes".

I have passion for original paint cars, but only so much can be learned from it. Looking at virgin engine compartment, interior and trunk and underbody is equally as important.

I understand your point Sam, but if we let everyone redefine survivor then we lose THE standard and it becomes too subjective and open to anyones interpretation.

[SBR]

As a Vette guy I commend Bloomington Gold for promoting the preservation of original cars. What I have seen though is a disturbing trend where cars are messaged heavily so that they can Benchmark. Why you may ask, money of course why else! I have seen cars over the years that have been completely repainted and bodies taken off the frame to clean chassis' engine repaints removed and they still pass for Benchmark. I have seen others with fender replaced and flares repaired and stock piles of NOS parts used from bumpers to taillights to door sills etc. etc. I persoanlly own a revivor as it was so put but I would rather be honest about it then participate in the continued deception that is running rampant in our hobbby. I guess I could pull the body off the frame and let the car age outside several years and who knows maybe I can have a benchmark car too! I think Bloomington needs to change their standards by measuring paint thickness for one or else the award that I used to hold in such high regard will be meaningless.

[Salvatore]

Hey Steve, You guys at Carlisle are the judges. You have seen way more cars than me. I will respect your calls and judgments. I am sure this type of judging is not an easy task.

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
As a Vette guy I commend Bloomington Gold for promoting the preservation of original cars. What I have seen though is a disturbing trend where cars are messaged heavily so that they can Benchmark. Why you may ask, money of course why else! I have seen cars over the years that have been completely repainted and bodies taken off the frame to clean chassis' engine repaints removed and they still pass for Benchmark. I have seen others with fender replaced and flares repaired and stock piles of NOS parts used from bumpers to taillights to door sills etc. etc. I persoanlly own a revivor as it was so put but I would rather be honest about it then participate in the continued deception that is running rampant in our hobbby. I guess I could pull the body off the frame and let the car age outside several years and who knows maybe I can have a benchmark car too! I think Bloomington needs to change their standards by measuring paint thickness for one or else the award that I used to hold in such high regard will be meaningless.

[/ QUOTE ]

In Vintage Camaro we measure paint thickness and verify what should be found in factory applied paint. As you mention massaging of the cars is a problem. We rather have an untouched car. We don't mind a dull paint and a little dirt. It doesn't effect our certification process.

I am also involved with Bloomingtons Survivor Show, and was surprised that measuring paint was a no-no.

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Steve, You guys at Carlisle are the judges. You have seen way more cars than me. I will respect your calls and judgments. I am sure this type of judging is not an easy task.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to point out that the term is/has been defined by the Vette community (Bloomington Gold) I am sure not everyone accepts it, but it is a line in the sand.

Novaivor is a term you may want to coin and define as a nova survivor. OK Sam have at it....

I can't wait to see your LB Nova. BTW it would look nice next to my LB Camaro.

[Salvatore]

I love all these cars Steve!