The BMW 507 Ultimate Build Thread!!!

[olredalert]

----Geez, Dave! you should be able to eclipse 150 horsies without even breaking a sweat with a 215 GM. Bet you could keep it smooth a reliable with around 300hp!!!.....Bill S

[A12pilot]

Alrighty, moving right along. The front suspension is in place so now it’s time to join the front rails to the side rails. My frame rail/industrial pipe bender is in the shop getting fixed, so the best way to join these will be the form the connectors using plate stock and cut them to fit. How do you do that? I used the same technique I used forming the body panels; paper cut outs. Worked grea! Of course everything has to be level, plum, true, square, then checked again, and again……annnnnd again. When I felt comfortable that everything was where it was supposed to be, the Lincoln Mig 225 set on D and a speed of 7 laid down a few tack welds to hold everything in place.










The small triangles are the lower radiator mounts.
One part of the suspension that I am still on the fence on is the steering. I don’t like the way the rack and pinion looks up front. Yet, the 507 does have the drag link in front versus behind. My initial plans were to switch out that system to a manual box of some kind and use the linkage to match. I haven’t welded the rack mounts on yet since I was sent the wrong end tie rod end links in my kit. This manual rack is centered and with a 60” track width does requires longer rods. I esplained’ this to the dude on the phone where I bought my kit and he says, “No, you need a rack extension, not longer tie rods.” To which I replied, “No, I need longer tie rod ends on both sides. The problem you are referring to is a result of an offset rack and improper steering Ackerman. My rack is centered which does not change the pivot points thus keeps the Ackerman angle intact. I need longer rod ends to reach the spindles.” So this goes on and on until a conference call happens with the tech who builds the kit and he says, “You need longer tie rod ends”. Ah, customer service. The next domino in the decline of societal values. Anyway, I have the right parts so now I just have to decide what I want to do. I’ll probably just use the rack for now and alter the lower fascia to hide the thing. Easy enough to do!

For the rear I decided 4-link was the best way to go since I didn’t want to see any goofy leafs springs and a drop in Jag rear was just way too overboard for this. So just throw the rear in and weld up for bars to hold it in, right? Whoa, hold on Potsie. First you have to figure out the CG height of the car, lateral constraint points, set the angle of the smaller top bars correctly both on the horizontal and lateral, verify percentage of length between the top bars and lower bars, cross measure for squarity (squarity?) and verify track by cross triangulating the measurement on the diagonal calculating an instant center (IC) that results in correct anti-squat. See? Easy! Besides a few SuperDaveisms, believe it or not, all those terms are things one has to think about installing a 4-link set up. Yeah, I had no idea either. I’m pretty sure this was why Shawn said, “Call Art Morrison.” Time to learn more stuff!!!!

So step one was to assemble the Currie 9” sporting 3.70s and a posi with 11” drum brakes. After that was assembled and positioned, I then bolted up the wheels. Then the problems started. My 5 on 5.5” bolt pattern has thrown everyone whomst I chat with for a loop. This is the old big Ford pattern but it Instantly gets changed in everyone’s head to the more common Ford or Chevy 5 on 4.5/4.75. And that’s what happened here. Sent a message to Currie who got the word from the front end people, and the following conversation ensued:

Currie: [rrriing…..rrrrring……rrrrrrrrriiiiing] “Currie Enterprises, Get your Rear in General and start here! This is Stan, can I help you?”
Me: “Yeah, hi Stan. I ordered a 9” rear for my project and it looks like I was sent the wrong bolt pattern axles and drums. It’s supposed to be a five on…”
Currie: “May I have the order number?”
Me: “…five and a half and…oh, yeah, Order is 543875JMFC”
Currie: “Yes, what is the problem?”
Me: “Yeah, as I was saying, I received the wrong bolt pattern axles and….
Currie: “You ordered a 5 on 5.5” bolt pattern.”
Me: “I know, that’s what I’m trying to tell you, the axles you sent are wrong”
Currie: “Those aren’t wrong, that’s what you ordered.”
Me: “I know that’s what I ordered, you sent the wrong ones to me!”
Currie: “Why would we send you the wrong axles?”
Me: “Why would I call you to discuss my axles if they were the right ones? Do you think I just wanted to compliment you on how nice they were since I have nothing better to do?”

So, after this “Who’s on First” round about, I finally have the right axles and drums coming this way. But in all seriousness, they were excellent to deal with unlike the front end people. It really was just a matter of a quick email with a photo and him saying, “What the….those ain’t right! We’ll ship the right ones out to you tomorrow with a prepaid label for the return.” Now that’s how you do it!




Despite the set back, I’m continuing with the mock up and things are going well. More to come with details on how to set up a 4-link, why the links are positioned the way they are, and the decline of customer service.

Cheers
Dave

[RPOLS3]

Wow - again.

[Too Many Projects]

Pfffttt....who needs a frame table when there are 2x4's around. Frame is looking quite cool.
Customer service...at least you got to talk to a real person. Seems most of what I get anymore are automated menus with automated choices that aren't what I called about and automated answers to their choices, that aren't what I called about.

[Lynn]

OR.... I get some person whom I absolutely cannot understand no matter how hard I try.

[Too Many Projects]

Originally Posted by Lynn

OR.... I get some person whom I absolutely cannot understand no matter how hard I try.

Ooooooh, tank u veddy mooch for dat inforrrrrmation.

[Lynn]

Then me: "I am so sorry; I am not trying to be rude, but I simply cannot understand you, so I will call back and hope I get someone I can understand."

OK, back to our regularly scheduled Super Dave Adventure.

[A12pilot]

My floor pans just showed up! I'm so excited!

Cheers
Dave

[big gear head]

I've bought those same floor pans a few times.

[A12pilot]

Progression has progressed with progress! Despite the setbacks with the incorrect bolt pattern on the axles, I was able to get the rear set up and all calculations have been run, double run, and triple run with triangulatory and squarity preserved. I originally was going to design my own rear set up using torsion bars like the factory had and at the last minute just decided a 4-link was a better way to go. Not knowing about something leads me to searching for people smarter than I am to either learn by osmosis or the sponge effect and soak up all of their knowledge. While the previous got me through college using my textbooks, I can’t see calling a rep from a chassis shop and asking if we can touch craniums for a couple days. Besides being a pain to coordinate, it sounds creepy. Geeze, where was I? OK, moving on…..

It seems the off road crowd loves the 4-link set up. Check out any monster truck racing scene and you’ll see it. Rock crawlers sport them too. There’s a lot going on back there which I learned really quickly. This is such a fun project since it’s making me learn a whole new everything in regards to cars that I didn’t know before. Calculations a plenty!!!

The plan started by positioning the rear in the frame rails and then verifying it’s square to the front. This involved me pseudo-mounting the tires to the axle since my bolt pattern was not correct. I measured front to back and also triangulated the measurement to make sure it was perfectly spare in the frame. In other words, the axle is not only on the same parallel with the front track, but it’s on the same longitude and not offset from the front wheels. Once I was confident that I had that I tilted the axle to set my initial pinion angle. The pinion of the rear needs to be on the same plane at the tilt of the motor. I set this using the intake manifold by measuring the angle of the carburetor mounting flanges. It shows about 5 degrees. Angling the rear up 5 degrees gets the pinion and engine centerline angle the same. Fine tuning happens with the links later.






Once that was set it was time to set the bars in place. Initial mock up showed that the upper bars will work but might be pointing high, and lower bars needed to be hacked shorter. So, back online I go….and then the sirens went off and arms flailed… “Danger! DANGER Will Robinson!!!!” Apparently you can’t shorten the lower arms nor do you want the upper bars facing upwards. Something called Instant Center which is a percentage measured from a starting paint of 100% based on an imaginary measurement of the suspension linkage to a point where it intersects that is effectively the point of pivot for that set up. I know, I thought the same thing….”HUH?” The fluorescent light bulb in my head displayed a weak ballast and was flickering. Well how in the heck does that get figured out and what the heck does that mean? Off to find people more smarter than me and luckily I was rewarded with an online calculator.




The light went on full bright after finding that calculator. No more flickering! I had to weld up mounts for the lower control arms, but the uppers seemed to fall in place. A test of the suspension through the movements with a jack and an angle gauge verified the pinion movement being acceptable through the suspension travel. The other things that need to be considered during the position of the brackets are the angles of the top arms to the longitudinal axis of the car and that all the mounts are parallel to each other as are the bars. Too shallow and angle and you don’t have proper side play stability. Too steep and it’ll bind. About forty-five degrees, plus or minus a few, seems to be the best angle. Mine seemed to fall about at the forty degree mark. The left and right bars should be at the same angle and parallel to each other. In other words, one not higher set that the other. There’s one of those opticallical conclusions happening on the rear since these Ferd 9” jobbies don’t have a centered 3rd member which makes the bars appear to be at different angles since they mount a little offset from each other. The bars are the same height. The mounts are not. Finally, after all those angles are achieved and the suspension is verified it doesn’t bind up, it’s welded in. I know….PHEW!!!!!!!



So next up is floor pans, dash, steering column positioning along with the pedal quadrant and seat. So basically, I'm building the car multiple times and then one final time and then breaking it down for paint.

Yeah, I know... Another PHEW!!!

Cheers
Dave