69 Z-28 survivor

[adam]

Son of a gun fellas....sorry to ruffle some feathers. I was in line with Andy Tante's thoughts that the car had made it through 38 years of use without losing drivetain or being back-halved for a drag car.

I truely apologize for my mis-grammar, and please ignore the term survivor wherever used. I meant no harm, and certainly did not intend to mislead, or try to mis-describe the car in any way.

[427king]

If i was in the market for a Z,id be in Vermont right now.[well maybe tommorrow,theres a foot of snow on the ground] Good price for the car.

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
Son of a gun fellas....sorry to ruffle some feathers. I was in line with Andy Tante's thoughts that the car had made it through 38 years of use without losing drivetain or being back-halved for a drag car.

I truely apologize for my mis-grammar, and please ignore the term survivor wherever used. I meant no harm, and certainly did not intend to mislead, or try to mis-describe the car in any way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Adam your car is a fine car. No need to apologize, no feather ruffle here. The survivor discussion began when someone stated "how can a car that has been repainted be considered a survivor" I actually stated how a car could be based on the Bloomington Certification guidelines.

Then Andy made up his own definition which I (jokingly)referred to as a "survived camaro". Please don't take the discussion we have had here the wrong way. I prefer unrestored cars like yours, nothing hidden...

[agtw31]

let's be realistic.
Bloomington guidelines refer to cars that have been sitting in a garage for 40 years,probably in a museum.
sure they have all the original parts,but that's because they havent moved in 40 years.

i have seen examples that dont fit that criteria be considerred a "survivor" that arent museum pieces,that amaze me,though.

but this Z28 actually defines survivor by being "driven".
sure,the original alternator and water pump puked over the years,and it got another paint job,but that is because it's been "driven".

i fail to see the "big deal" factor in a car that sits in a garage for 40 years,only to be brought out and proclaimed "survivor' because it still has the original air in the tires,or the spare tire still smells like rubber.

impress me,and fire that museum piece up,and run it down the 1/4,without that "original" fan belts,water pump,and alternator going south.

to be a survivor,you should survive something,other than time

this is only my opinion,nothing more.

[Steve Shauger]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">let's be realistic.
Bloomington guidelines refer to cars that have been sitting in a garage for 40 years,probably in a museum.
sure they have all the original parts,but that's because they havent moved in 40 years.

i have seen examples that dont fit that criteria be considerred a &quot;survivor&quot; that arent museum pieces,that amaze me,though.

but this Z28 actually defines survivor by being &quot;driven&quot;.
sure,the original alternator and water pump puked over the years,and it got another paint job,but that is because it's been &quot;driven&quot;.

i fail to see the &quot;big deal&quot; factor in a car that sits in a garage for 40 years,only to be brought out and proclaimed &quot;survivor' because it still has the original air in the tires,or the spare tire still smells like rubber.

impress me,and fire that museum piece up,and run it down the 1/4,without that &quot;original&quot; fan belts,water pump,and alternator going south.

to be a survivor,you should survive something,other than time

this is only my opinion,nothing more. </div></div>

I don't want to get into a pissing match here but your first statement could not be further from the truth (you need to get informed before you make inaccurate statements). The operation phase of the certification is essential and includes a monitored 30 mile drive and includes all operational and functional areas.

Without some guidelines, anyone could call or classify a car what ever they wanted. Without certifications and standards such as a #1, 2, 3 or 4, buyers and sellers would be talking apples and oranges. Standards are important and protect us all from wasting a lot of time on wild goose chases and misrepresentation. Camaro standards and terminology mirror the Corvette world to a high degree (why reinvent the wheel)

The thinking (IMHO) behind a car that is categorized as a survivor or benchmark is that it sets the standards by which cars should be built/restored to (represent how they left the factory). Yes these cars may be pampered to some degree, but they do represent historical data that would be lost if modified or restored; which may not be the utmost importance to you, but to the purist and professional restorer these cars are the holy grail. LV's COPO that sold yesterday is a great example.

Just for your information many survivor cars have been thrashed and have well over 100K miles, but they are well preserved and for the most part unrestored. I will send you the guidelines that our program Vintage Camaro subscribe to, and I recommend visiting the Bloomington, or the NCRS site as you may come away enlightened.

BTW I drive the snot out of my survivor cars. They are like driving in a time capsule back in the 60's. Yes they are great cars warts and all.

&lt;img src=&quot;https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...eers.gif&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;

[agtw31]

every make of every car has a benchmark they can go by,just go to any car museum.



as far as Bloomington,i was speaking in generalities,and did say there were examples that did amaze me like the 100k example you mentioned.

i feel Bloomington doesnt exist for the majority,and i cant really take it seriously.

still just my opinion.

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
every make of every car has a benchmark they can go by,just go to any car museum.



as far as Bloomington,i was speaking in generalities,and did say there were examples that did amaze me like the 100k example you mentioned.

i feel Bloomington doesnt exist for the majority,and i cant really take it seriously.

still just my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

[427king]

Are you talking about the 61 corvette with 136,000 miles that received a NCRS survivor award??

[GMC_Typhoon]

HAHA I guess I named the topic wrong. I was just posting the original FS ad.

I wouldn't have a clue if this car was 100% correct,that's what you guys are here for.

Ok yeah stuff is wrong,but having the ORIGINAL VIN stamped drivetrain overrides all that.

Overall this car is worth restoring IMO. That's all.


Now my take on "survivor".

IMO that means all original. No paint no parts no nothing.

Good luck finding that.

So this car is not a survivor.But it is close.

The numbers are real,so that overrides the repaint,incorrret carpet clip,and wrong valve stem cap on the driver side rear.

That's nothing.

It's not a back halved rebodied fake Yenko clone.

It is what it is. And somebody will appreciate it for that.

[70 copo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see prices have returned to earth. Nice car. Priced about right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure you can base that on this car. The car is obviously NOT a survivor. Has incorrect paint, hood, grill, incorrect ride height/springs and many missing/incorrect pieces under the hood. No information regarding documentaion, and is low option car. Not trying to bash this car, but it is neither a survivor or concours restored car. What do you think this would have been worth a year ago?

[/ QUOTE ]


Steve,

Lets focus my comments to exactly what I was referring to. Since 2004 There have been numerous examples for sale where the seller was asking large dollars for cars that were claimed to be original with LOTS of stuff that was very clearly wrong.

Since then there have been more examples of cars that should have been heavily critiqued on Camaro web sites but essentially got a "pass" because while the car was not perfect- the asking price was still good and high.

This allows others that are vested in these values to speculate up the price on better cars through comparison with the high priced yet vastly inferior examples.

Despite this, the prices asked for these cars along with the rest of the 20,000 made in 1969 were hyped to levels that the market could clearly not sustain over the long term.

The car discussed in this thread looks to be an honest car that would appear to still have its original engine and is fairly priced (for a change). This fact is no small feat by its self.

It is that simple. Car is not perfect but the asking price is not $70K either.

My comments had and have zero to do with the car as a "survivor" (as the term) is currently used by the NCRS or for Camaro judging criteria.

Phil