which is best- c.e. or date correct motor?

[Verne_Frantz]

[ QUOTE ]
One that would get full points in NCRS-type judging - dated, numbered, broach marks etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Zedder, I respectfully disagree with your answer to JoeG. Just because an engine can win the most points at an NCRS event does NOT mean it's a properly done "restoration" motor. A car that scores a PERFECT score at an NCRS national event is not necessarilly the most historically ACCURATE restoration of that car. It only means that the car was done to NCRS guidlines.

I guess my overall point is that any car deserves to be restored to it's former original condition, just for it's own sake, and to preserve a piece of history for other people to learn from long after we're all long gone. As time passes and we learn more, I hope more people realize that a "restoration" should be a depiction of a car just as it was originally built. If changes are made to a car during restoration that deviate from the way it was delivered new, just because someone wrote a guideline about how it "should" be done, then the purpose of the restoration was to win a $10. trophy (or claim the status from the award to gain more money) rather than to accurately preserve the history of the car.

The CAR is the MOST important thing. The most important thing is NOT winning an award or increasing the car's value. I guess I'm just living in a idealistic world......I can't help my views. No offense meant.
I would rather leave off a $10. item from a car I restored exactly as original and sacrifice the peddigre of a national award and the $10K+ more it would be worth if restored to someone's guideline for the sake of restoring it exactly as original.

I guess preserving history happens to be more important to me than changing something for the sake of a short term personal gain during our little speck in history.

Verne

[Zedder]

No problem with having a differing opinion Verne...that's the beauty of the hobby - each of us chooses how to play the game My comments were made with respect to the motor only - which is the topic of this thread. I don't think any judging body has re-written history in that regard. I do agree that many judging manuals and judges have made mistakes and I would only follow them if I wanted my car judged in that venue. I will never have a car judged as that is not where my interests lie today. I did a 6 year stint in the NCRS and had a blast and learned a lot - so no disrespect to anyone in that organization. So what I was saying is to me there is only one original engine for a car. ANY other engine is just part of a restoration in my view...so, just like I would use NOS quarter panels whenever available to replicate the originals, I have no problem with a correctly dated, broached and restamped motor or tranny etc. The price differential of 30 plus percent less for a non-orignal motor car that many go by is silly to me - but that's just my opinion! Yes, I believe there should be a differential, but the fact remains that cars that lost their motors etc. during "battle" are still great cars! What peeves me is the fact that so many look down their noses at these cars and have relegated them to second class status and I think it creates more ill-will than necessary. There is no doubt in my mind that this is what is fueling the trend towards less-correct restos and non-numbers fun cars. It's a shame really because this is just causing more "history" to be lost to the mini-tubbed pro-touring set. Again, just my opinions boys, so no need to throw flames

[TimG]

I believe that in the end, we're talking about a very few actual documented cars with CE engines. I think the potential is there for faking these engines and the paperwork, also. In reality, I see no chance of NCRS providing any special treatment for a CE motor. In theory, you could have a dealer that has a CE motor in stock that is correctly numbered and dated for the car. If a motor died the first week of ownership and the dealer had a CE motor in stock that was cast two months before, it could have the correct casting number and date. NCRS would judge the engine and the car could easily Top Flight.