![]() Dedicated to the Promotion and Preservation of American Muscle Cars, Dealer built Supercars and COPO cars. |
|
Register | Album Gallery | Thread Gallery | FAQ | Community | Calendar | Become a Paid Member | Today's Posts | Search |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Fascinating stuff Verne...I remember years ago at Late Great when you guys started that project. You have accumulated a lot of info since then.
|
#22
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Hmmmm that brings a question to mind on a car of mine. If you don't mind I would like to know if that first few cars starting out of sequence with S/numbers was also true at the St Louis Vette plant??
I have a '65 Vette roadster with S/N 000011 and have been told it may be the first car off the line with disk brakes and now if what you say is true then my car may be only the 2nd or third car off the start of the line with that early of a S/N and not the actual 11'th car off..? I understand the first few cars off, had drum brakes because the 4 wheel disk set ups were not ready in time. This info came from a respected source by the name of Bill Moock in Bartlesville, OKLA. Thanks Larry
__________________
70 BM Phase III GT Vette 69 BM SS427 GT vette? 69 L78 Nova 7k mi 73 Pantera 69 Vette B/P SCCA |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Verne,
My green Chevelle is a "pilot car," LS6. It isn't a "pilot car," for the 1970 Chevelle, but instaed the LS6 option. As of now it is the earleist LS6 with a verifiable buildsheet. On both buildsheets are the words.."pilot job 454 CI," and the paperwork has been looked over by leading Chevrolet/Chevelle historians. Thanks for sharing your info..I'd love to chat on the phone..Is there a way to contact you? Greg |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Larry,
First of all, I haven't tracked the Corvettes at all. All my data is strictly focused on the full size cars. At any rate, it's my understanding that the pre-production pilot cars were built at only the one or two "lead" Fisher Body plants. Once the tooling was verified, I'm not quite sure how that information was transfered to the other plants. However, in the case of the Vettes, since they were only built at St. Louis that year, I would feel pretty confident that St. Louis did the pilot car Vettes. Aside from paper work to validate that, I would encourage you to seek out other low VIN '65 Vettes (probably not an easy task) and compare equipment and date codes. Let's say Vette #15 had parts with dates about 2 weeks prior to the calculated final assembly, but your car had parts with dates 2 months prior, then I'd say you have a pretty strong case that your car might have been one of the pilots. Since Corvettes only had two body styles, I doubt they built that many pilots, even if they needed to test assemble a variety of options. Strictly educated speculation on my part, but I doubt St. Louis built 11 pilot Vettes. I'd hate to think it took them that many to get it right!?! At any rate, I feel confident that your car was not the 11th to roll off the line. You might also want to check to see if there are any "'64" parts on your '65. I recently had the fortunate opportunity to thoroughly go over a '64 Impala Super Sport convertible which was a pilot car. Body number 2 (perhaps #1 didn't quite meet spec?), VIN#6. This car had a '63 steering box, wiper motor and tach harness. The car was built two months prior to production launch. This car was originally built as a 4-speed car, verified by the original engine number, cowl tag and paper work - then dismantled and reassembled as a Powerglide car. Original owner history has verified the car was delivered new with the automatic, and I've found many traces left behind of the original 4-speed set-up that the plant didn't bother to remove. So, in that case, they saved the time and cost of building an additional pilot car only to establish the assembly methods of an automatic SS. Larry, your Vette might still hold some undiscovered secrets.................! Verne. |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Greg,
I never doubted your car was a pilot, I just didn't know what might have been "new" that far into production. As for getting in touch with me.......easy, I'm in the book. ....But to make it easier, you have a PM. Verne. |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Verne,
I actually spoke to Jim Mattison regarding "pilot cars," and he relayed that most "pilot cars," were actually built at the Flint Plant irregardless of what the car says. Chevrolet had a special area in the Flint Plant for that purpose. The LS6 was an exception though because it was basically a "SS396" with a larger engine. These cars were built at the respective plants, with the cars being used for media evaluation, engineering, auto shows, etc. They (the LS6 "pilot cars," which he said I have) had hand assembled engines and rears, and were monitored for quality and assembly procedure. He thought about 10-12 cars would have been assembled, and most would have been scrapped. I think therefore it is possible to have other LS6 "pilot cars," from plants other than Baltimore..Along with "standard" 1970 Chevelle "pilot cars." I would suspect that the same can be said for any of the major mid year introductions..1967 L78 Camaros, COPO's, etc. He sent a nice letter discussing the LS6 and "pilot cars" in general. I'll try sending it over if you like. Thanks for your input..I'll try you on Monday. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
> I actually spoke to Jim Mattison regarding "pilot cars," and he relayed that most "pilot cars," were actually built at the Flint Plant irregardless of what the car says.
You're talking apples and oranges here. Flint did the buck builds and early prototypes. The *PRODUCTION* pilot builds were only done at the plant. The whole point was to prove out the tooling at the plant. Look up some of the threads on the real early 67 LA Camaro (7L100016, body # 1) (either on camaros.net or CRG). It has great info, including some posts from John Z who worked at Flint and was responsible for making the tryouts in the plant work.
__________________
Kurt S - CRG |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Most people that are aware of "pilot cars," understand that there are different "levels." That is from pure one off prototypes to actual initial production cars built to test the production cycle. I would imagine that even with the L78 being another BB Camaro, there was a certain amount of engineering that was done in Flint vs. Norwood or Van Nuys...Also while any engine changes..L78 to LS6 for instance was just a larger engine, there was still a fair amount of engineering that needed to go into the cars, hence why they went to GM people..executives, zone reps, etc. They were people that could provide "real world," feedback..hence my car was a demo for a service zone rep. In regards to the LS6 program, there were certainly cars built using what would have amounted to crate LS6 engines...the Motor Trend test car being an obivious one. These cars, were built using SS396 cars and built more than likely in Sept./Oct 1969, would be the "truest" "pilot cars," as they were prototypes. My car is a "production pilot car," since it was not scrapped and was actually retailed. It would have been used to check both line quality and production/engineering quality of the "finished" product. GM wouldn't have actually allowed the prototypes to be sold as there would have been too many liability issues. I would imagine that there are other "production pilots," out there for the other plants, but again it is possible given Baltimore's importance in the "A" body program (Z16's, COPO's)that Baltimore was used as the "testbed" for production, and other "production pilots" weren't constructed.
|
#29
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
[ QUOTE ]
I would imagine that there are other "production pilots," out there for the other plants, but again it is possible given Baltimore's importance in the "A" body program (Z16's, COPO's)that Baltimore was used as the "testbed" for production, and other "production pilots" weren't constructed. [/ QUOTE ] Wouldn't every plant make pilot cars so the guys doing the job knew how to do it ?? Seems like manufacturing 101 but what do I know ! |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Let's not confuse "prototypes" with "production pilot cars". Prototypes were generally built 2-3 YEARS prior to production and used mostly hand made parts, and could not be sold to the public due to liability. It would make sense that prototypes would all be built at Flint, with close proximity to the design studios and central engineering. Most prototypes were destroyed, however the pilot cars which met "spec" were mostly sold. The '64 pilot car I just recently documented was sold "new" with 400 miles on it. The dealer told the purchaser it was a "demo". It was built at Janesville, which happened to be the leading production plant both in '63 and '64.
Verne. |
![]() |
|
|