Civil Forfeiture Detroit...Be Aware.

[COPO]

Lynn, if property is placed in a trust is it mostly shielded from this abuse? I'm assuming with an irrevocable trust the asset would be pretty much untouchable from civil forfeiture, however, perhaps not too practical for most people to use.

[Lynn]

Don't confuse exemption laws with forfeiture laws. Almost no correlation. In the yacht case above, it would not have mattered how title was held. The "owner" (in your example, the irrevocable trust) receives no protection unless they put forth an "innocent owner" defense that works.

Nothing placed in a revocable trust is protected from a potential creditor just by virtue of being in the trust. Much of what we own is exempt from a potential creditor under homestead laws. In OK, that means, home, one car, household goods and furnishings used for personal family and household use, 100 chickens, five milk cows and their calves, two horses, bridle and tack, all money held in retirement accounts (that's why the Goldman family could never attach OJ's pension money) tools used to make a living, etc. Placing those things in a revocable trust doesn't diminish that protections, but it doesn't increase it. However, I have seen more than one creditor's atty just give up when property is in trust, thinking that collecting would be much more difficult.

The basic rule is "If I can get to it, so can a potential creditor."

As for the irrevocable trust, I don't see how that makes any difference AS FAR AS HOW THE LAWS ARE CURRENTLY ON THE BOOKS. If I loaned you my car, and you used it to transport drugs, it is subject to forfeiture, even if I had no idea what you were going to use it for. It makes no difference if I owe $50k on the car.

That is why I believe the 2019 Supreme Court ruling is such a big deal. I think once folks start using that as a defense, the states will back off. Problem is the legal system takes years to work out all the details. There is an old saying: The wheels of God's justice grind slowly, but exceedingly fine. It is the same way with the legal system. Eventually some state (or municipality like Detroit) will cross paths with the wrong person in an especially grievous manner, and will be willing to take on the state or city in Federal Court. Once one state or city gets hit with a big damage verdict, everyone will back off.

Of course, this is just my opinion. These things take time. Look how long we have been trying to desegregate schools, even though Brown was decided almost 69 years ago, and ordered schools to desegregate "with all due speed".

[Pusher_Man]

Wow, had no idea Lynn is an attorney, obviously. I love reading stuff like this. I think I must have been a lawyer in a previous life.

[70 copo]

The LEO robbers have been busy in California. Sheriff's Deputies have completed a series of Illegal Roadside Seizures resulting in what else? A lawsuit of course.

Armored Car Company Sues Fed Law Enforcement, CA Sheriff After Trucks are stopped and the contents seized.

Since May 2021, Empyreal’s vehicles were stopped and searched by sheriff’s deputies five times—twice in Kansas and three times in San Bernardino County, California. The three San Bernardino stops occurred over the course of just eight weeks, including a stop as recently as last January 6.

Although none of these five stops led to an arrest or even a traffic ticket, three resulted in the seizure of all the legal deposits in Empyreal’s vehicles, totaling over $1 million. Each time deputies seized these legal proceeds, they handed them over to federal agencies to take through federal forfeiture procedures. If successfully forfeited, up to 80% of the proceeds taken through the federal “equitable sharing” program would then return to local sheriffs to spend as they please.


https://ij.org/case/empyreal-forfeiture/

[455HO POST]

Pete's car was not recovered without damage.

[1971ls6]

They tore up the motor and frontend curb hopping it. They did tell him that it was the fastest car they have ever stolen!

JJ was the lucky chosen one to go with Pete for the exchange. When they got to the meeting place, it was some old lady, she called and a young kid pulled up in the car.

This was not their first rodeo

[455HO POST]

It's just a Game to them.