Single vs. Double; Original vs. CE Block

[Alss]

I bought my COPO Chevelle last July..lots of paper documentation a CE block,#'s matching trans and rear. I am actually realieved that it is a CE block..takes some pressure off the "matching" numbers game. The car is as real as they get and was raced hard. I was more pressed to find a car with paperwork than one with a "original numbers matching" motor.With all the re-stamping going on, and the thieves are getting good at it a car may appear to be real but could be a good fake/re-stamp.No one can argue with good original factory paperwork.

ALbert

[Chevy454]

I'm curious about the *bias* regarding auto vs. manual cars? The autos are rarer, and will put a whoopin' on the stick cars, but some folks are hung up on shifting for themselves...what gives?

BTW: good topic, Howard...

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious about the *bias* regarding auto vs. manual cars? The autos are rarer, and will put a whoopin' on the stick cars, but some folks are hung up on shifting for themselves...what gives?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad you said it and not me!

[Belair62]

I have both auto and manual cars...that CX trans is something else...but sticks are still cooler

I guess it all depends on how you look at it..I mean look at Chrysler..couldn't have gotten more factory sponsored race cars in the '60's-70's and they prefered to stick a lot of TorqueFlite (sp?) 727's in their cars..I think a lot of Chevy people are hung up on manuals, but when looking at the other makes, it isn't as big of a deal..When you guys get so old (I'm only 34) that you can't push in the clutch anymore..what are you gonna drive if you want to drive a musclecar?

[SamLBInj]

I would consider documentation and history the most critical factor. There is too many scum bags out there where you could almost build any car you wanted and get a POP, Trim Tag, and build sheet, all numbers matching to boot. Without the history you are not a 100% sure what you are winding up with. Thats why real known cars are worth so much and if they have all the original parts you got one of only a handful of what are left. These cars were purchased with one thing in mind, racing, and if you do that right the parts dont last long. Me personally, Id rather find one than buy one but that aint very easy nowadays, but im still looking...

[rubbinisracing]

Thanks for your opinions!

Let me respond to a few points made.

1. I may have confused some of you by using the word "deduction", what I meant but didn't effectively communicate is this. A 50k deduction means the same as I'd pay 50k more for same car with numbers matching engine (etc) its just semantics.

2. I never set a top price for the car. Don't know what that would be. Its your math not mine! 250K for a numbers matching 4 spd yenko......Sign me up!

3. This a hobby to me, but I try to apply some business acumen along the way. Let me give you an example.

10-12 weeks ago I was offered a 1967 L88 Corvette Convertible for 750K. The car was extensively documented, numbers, the whole thing. I wasn't prepared to make a decision while on the phone because I hadn't done my homework. There was a lot to think about.....Should I buy this car or buy multiple cars with the same money. I could get 5 - 67 Corvette Vert 427-435 cars for the same money or any number of other combinations. I could take the same money and buy a small office building and earn 75K on a 10 cap plus get appreciation of 7% a year. Turnaround and take the 75k and buy new muscle with it.
These are the kinds of questions you need to have already answered before you get the call. I need to have done this for every car I want to collect plus others that are on the fringe of what I'm currently looking for. When a high value limited production car becomes available and you get word of it, 4-8 hrs has usually passed and a dozen or so potential buyers have been contacted. You probably got 30 mins tops. When I called back, the car was sold.
If you haven't done this before how do you decide when to quit bidding or to tella guy that's too rich for you? What do you do if 2 like cars are at an auction that meet your criteria? What do you negotiate with?
"Sucess is when preperation meets opportunity"

4.Colin, how many guys never got in on the bidding because a particular car wasn't correct. We'll never know, nor will we ever know what that car would have brought if it had appealed to more buyers. It only takes 2 guys wanting the same thing for it to get interesting. Is a shortstop worth 25 mil, must be, somebody paid him!
Your right about great paperwork over iffy, but why do you have to choose between one or the other. Get it all!

5. Sam, your right, percentages would work better but I would have to set a base to work from. I'm not sure where that would be, but I'm open to suggestions.
I seen the write up on this site about your Charger and it was wonderful. It opened my eyes to a facet of collecting I hadn't considered. I've incorporated it to my search for cars. Thanks!

6. Jeff, good job of reading between the lines! I already knew what I'm looking for, but wanted to see if I was overlooking something.
Give me a fully documented Yenko with original drive train!

7. Al, first things first. What a good looking Chevelle you had in Nashville. Tried to come by and introduce myself but with the rain I kept missing you.
Sounds like you got the copo you wanted. Good luck on the resto.

8. 4 Spds.- A.) Personal preference for 4 speeds...just like to work the shifter.....makes me feel young. B.)I'm never gonna get on a high dollar numbers car real hard. I save that for my clone or street rod. Blow it up and fix it.... no tears shed! C.)The biggest reason - Colin feel free to weigh in.... If I need to sell a car(s) quickly to raise cash I can get out in 24 hours. A/T's take a lot longer. Case in point - LMC had a A/T Yenko on their site for 4 weeks before it sold, wouldn't have made it to the web if it had been a 4 spd,

9. Sam in NJ, Right On and keep Jammin!

I really want to thank you guys for the post. Keep the cards and letters coming!

[SamLBInj]

Hey Howard,
Some good points you made.
One thing you may be overlooking is the restoration end,are you strictly looking for #1 cars? For your 750K you could open a pretty nice shop, hire some pretty talented people, ie: welder, painter, engine builder, ect. and start looking for deals on #3 and #4 type cars and doing the resto yourself and this would basically give you a much higher return on your money. As long as you got the good documentation eventially any car you find will wind up a high dollar #1 if you do it right. Maybe im a little off track but thats how I would approach it. Then if the Market ever takes a down turn your not stuck holding the bag on Million dollar hemi's and 750K vettes that youll be lucky enough to get back 60% on your money. It may be a hobby but with million dollar cars its also business. Isnt there a place down there in Texas where people are members of a private track where they can keep and run their cars? Theres the future, a high quality resto shop, huge garages, and a track...where do I sign up?

[Charley Lillard]

At 750K for a 67 L88 Roadster I have to assume it is a rebody......

In my opinion, if you are looking to make money in cars, and have to worry that you might lose your investment, you aren't in it for the right reasons..While musclecars are "hot" right now, and all the investing magazines, WSJ , etc are touting them they are only "liquid" within certain circles. Like it or not people with means who are not into them, juts view them as old cars. How many musclecars does Buffet, Gates, Turner (Ted), etc own? "Traditional" investments..ie: realestate, securities, stocks etc. will always be where the "masses" and savy investors put their money, and like everything else this market will cool and "investors" will loose. Buy cars because you like the look, the feel, or the mystique..NOT because of the return on the dollar.