Gibb 68 COPO Nova

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It all started from this publication.

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The above publication introduces the available options of the 396 & 427 Chevy11's in the November issue of PHR. The only hint of having an origin from the Fred Gibb stables, was the experimental automatic transmission coupled behind the L-78 or the L-72. Before this publication came out, Fred Gibb had advertised that 50 of the all new 396-375 horsepower Nova automatics were here in "Drag World," the publication of the American Hot Rod Association. The National Hot Rod Association were notified by GM and signed by Paul Pryor concerning that 50 L-78 Chevy11's with automatics were special factory built, being available & delivered to Fred Gibb Chevrolet by July 15, 1968.

In a previous post, is a newspaper clipping given by Helen Gibb, advertising the joining forces of Dick Harrell & the Fred Gibb dealership. Gibb was the Chevrolet dealer while Dick Harrell did the conversions & modifications that GM didn't offer.

Below are the advertisement ads that Fred Gibb exhibited in "Drag World upon the arrival of the 50 396-375 h.p. Chevy ll Hydramatics. Drag World came to those who were American Hot Rod Association members.

[Mr70]

Excellent info Ray and William.Thanks for sharing this and the docs with us all.

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Originally Posted by Mr70

Excellent info Ray and William.Thanks for sharing this and the docs with us all.

Thank you for the interest & also William for starting this thread. Many thanks to Steve S. for his assistance in the help he has given.

Concerning the ads that Fred Gibb displayed, these Novas were put on display before many of us, especially members of the " American Hot Rod Association."

Not knowing for sure, it is possible these ads were placed in NHRA's publication, also? The National Hot Rod Association had a membership publication of "National Dragster?" Knowing for sure that NHRA was considered because of their requirements being that 50 factory built units with the same specifications had to be documented before they set up a classification in their association.

Notice that these ads here again, these Novas Fred Gibb was advertising, were built with the newly available introduction of the 396-375 L-78. They do mention the introduction of having the combination of the L-78 with a Hydramatic & not a redesigned Turbo-400. Still nothing that they were a special batch requested just for Fred Gibb Chevrolet?


Most of us knew about the Turbo-400 that was available as a Regular Production Option (RPO) mated to different BB cars that were hydraulic lifter equipped. As was the case, the 396-375 h.p. Nova was now an RPO option that all Chevrolet dealers might not present unless you knew what to ask for? This was happening quite often back in those days, as magazine articles and the publications of the 2 major drag racing association's disclosing the newest options available.

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From an ad from the Dick Harrell's Performance Center that promotes the 396 & 427 Chevy ll, there was no clue given about Fred Gibb's involvement? DH only gave information of the available option being up to 500 horsepower through exclusive Chevrolet Dealers. Fred Gibb is mentioned in this ad only as one of the exclusive dealers of the network Harrell was building toward his performance center located in Kansas City, MO. In this ad, listed many of the things he offered, including Turbo Hydros. He also mentions B & M transmissions. The network of dealers he had established at that time, is shown in this ad showing Courtesy Chevrolet being a large part of the network he had established at this point. Still nothing though to make one wonder anything other mentioned to suspect of the original origination of these Nova's being supplied by Fred Gibb? While being an original owner, knowing it only as a Dick Harrell Nova for some 20 plus years, there was still a lot I could learn about the history of the Nova and the experimental automatic transmission of the DH 427.

[Kurt S]

Originally Posted by William

What I think happened is the transmission plant initially muffed the date coding.
TH400 transmissions were date coded with the model year [68], application [C].
The 396/TH400 Nova was a Spring 1968 launch. When the plant started building the new Nova TH400 transmissions, they incorrectly started the date code sequence as of January 1, 1968, not 1967. Common dates for the Gibb L78 Novas are 68C100 [April 9, 1968] 68C101, 68C102, 68C103, 68C104. Someone noticed and later cars had transmissions coded 68C534 [June 17, 1968].

It's the assembly plant that messed it up, not the trans plant. The Gibb TH400 trans I have seen are stamped correctly, but the POP is in error.

TH400 Code Format: yyaddd
yy = last two digits of the model year
a = transmission application
C = L35 engine
E = L34 engine
X = L78/L72/ZL1 engine
ddd = Julian day of model year
68C493 = Day 127 or May 7, 1968 for L35 Nova / Camaro

SERIAL NUMBER

Ca-69-nnnn e.g. CX-69-3470

where:
C = Chevrolet
X = L78/L72/ZL1 engine
69 = model year
nnnn = 4-digit production sequence number

The new trans were coded 68Y534 with serial # CY-68-10xx, etc.
But what Willow Run put on the POP was the CC trans, which was the L35 trans, ignoring the CY. And despite the 534 day on the trans, they put 103 as the date. So 68C103 on the POP instead of 68Y534. Sometimes the plant used the correct day, but the POP still showed the wrong trans model. All of those POP above should be 68Y5xx.
I can't explain. It wouldn't be for tracking purposes, that was implicit with the new trans code. I noticed this before, but didn't have enough data to see a pattern. Thanks Bill!

Ray - does your car / #37 have the original trans tag?

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I have an old polaroid picture that I looked back upon when taken while very new. In searching for any evidence of Fred Gibb's association, I thought it might have had the window sticker that might have still been there? I didn't find any nor can I remember one being there when driving it away from DHPC. I do remember hauling the air pump home in the trunk pulled because of the optional headers. Still nothing pointing toward Fred Gibb? At this point no reason to really look for anything other that what was already known? While putting the car back together, the need to freshen the original motor became an issue. Knowing that our engine builder was still in the former DHPC building doing competition work as he had done for DH before, it was taken back for him to refresh. Speaking with him and exchanging some DH documents, He mentioned that I should look into the car that the engine came from, that additional interesting information about documenting of the Nova was there to be found? Curiosity of what he had mentioned was beyond my understanding? The question was, where to start the search? He would not comment any further but his comment was the start for my looking for any information I could find?

Kurt S In answer to your question in the above thread, yes I do have the original tag and quite a bit of other transmission documentation that I would like to post later together. Thanks for the interest!

[Kurt S]

And I assume it's coded 68Y534 or such?

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Originally Posted by Kurt S

And I assume it's coded 68Y534 or such?

Fast forwarding a hint of what my original transmission code is and other details of it, which will contain the original torque converter & markings, is yet to come? At the point where I have been posting is my account of learning the mystery behind a DH prepared Nova I bought through Knowles Chevrolet after reading about the available 396-427 Nova with an experimental 3 speed automatic being offered by DHPC. As mentioned before, I did not know there would be more to the implication of Fred Gibb and the 50 he had previously advertised? Only when the engine was taken to be refreshed, was that in our discussion did he put the bug into my ear, that there was more information that I did not know about? Evidently he knew where DH & who the supplier was? The only information he gave me was, that a bag of worms might be opened with the origin behind the Nova and engine he was working on? That was still a mystery of what he was talking about, but later on with the memory of Fred Gibb's sponsorship and memory of the 68 Nova race car with DH's name on the back, the search would begin in hopes that Fred would have knowledge of what the mystery was to reveal?

Kurt, in getting back to your question of the code, I have a document before me now that I am looking at from Hydramatic, a Division of General Motors Corporation, Willow Run, Ypsilenti, Michigan, that was provided to me by Frank P. It contains the 69 400 transmission codes. While the information you have contained in your quest for knowledge into the transmissions the COPO Gibb Novas has some information associated with the transmission. The 534 you have is on my tag, but not part of the code. I believe this is the Julian Date of June? I also believe William may have the day in an earlier post? AS far as being the code, all doesn't match with mine. In this document from Hydramatic that Frank supplied to me, all the codes are of two letters, starting with applications associated with different versions of Chevrolet. CA onward to CX, with the CX being the last version indicated to be introduced or added on the date of 10-25-68. It also contains the codes for Rolls Royce (R), Opel (E) and Kaiser (K). The (C) referring to Chevrolet.

With a combined effort of several different people and their cars, of Course not to forget Fred Gibb And his Family, we have been able to uncover a lot of information about them . My intentions only are to walk through the process of how I would later find out about the mystery of the car I own? Just keeping in mind, I did not know for a long time, there was still a mystery that later would be revealed?

[Kurt S]

Yup, GM sold the TH400 to several outside companies.
Yes, the 534 is a modified Julian date - the 169th day, aka June 17.

The Gibb CY tags are atypical in their stamping, as you mention. The first part of the code is normally pre-printed on the TH400 tag, but these trans used prototype trans tags. The tags are generic so the preprinted part is missing, only the Julian date is stamped.
Maybe that is what caused the issue with the POPs - the clerk didn't know how to enter it on the POP since it wasn't on the tag in the normal format.
http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml#TH400