russo and steel chop job camaro copo

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Swapping VINS is illegal in Ontario, Canada....

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought I JUST SEEN that they, the "law makers", were just going to make it a law, as of now it was not? I can't

recall where I seen that, but it was within the last couple of weeks???

[/ QUOTE ]

Let use a little common sense, changing a vehicles identification # has always been illegal. If it weren't the crooks would have a field day. Without some regulation/laws you could make any car what ever you wanted, the result would be the pedigree of our cars would be lost and the demise of the collector car hobby.

I believe you are possibly referring to trim tags.

[Mr70]

Where is the subject Camaro today?

[rich p]

I think the buyer has been playing in this business for a LONG time and knows the Games that are played at these Auctions !!!

[firstgenaddict]

No I am not willing to bet 15 years... I am playing Devil's advocate here... as the law facinates me.

Steve you said that a guy got arrested and charged, but also said that he was involved in Stolen cars. He did not meet any of the exemptions as he was altering, swapping, removing VINS to "further the theft" (I would be willing to bet that the stolen vehicles are what set the authorites in motion) I really do not think that the authorities could give a damn about a guy who owns two cars legitimatley and he decided to swap the vins from one to the other because one is irrepairable. I believe that the law was written in order to push widespread car theft and dismantling into Federal jurisdiction. I could be wrong here as well... but the statute is called
"Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act"

I am not a lawyer but the way I interpreted the statute is that VIN tampering is only illegal if it is done to conceal a previous crime (Theft).

I did notice the Repair/restoration statutory exemption clause, but the subsections appeared to be independent of one another, thus the reason I cited only the subheading I did.

I agree that there is no reason to "swap VIN's" from one vehicle to another.

I also see that it could be very difficult to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a VIN was swapped and not just removed and re-installed... If the restorer... errr BUTCHER cited the Repair / restoration exemption and said that the firewall, dash, etc was damaged beyond repair and in order to fix it a section had to be cut from another car and welded in then the VIN had to re-installed in the Replaced section.

Now to take a different road to the same destination...
What if the car was clipped through the door posts and across the floor board and welded into another body.(basically using the bare minimum of the car with the VIN's)? Would this be considered VIN swapping or would it be considered a "repair"?
Half and Half piece togethers used to be common place in the 70's...

NOW 1 more...
Would decking an old VIN off and stamping a different VIN back on an Engine or Transmission fall under this? It appears as though it would if using your explanation of the law, because any obliteration or alteration of any VIN would be illegal whether someone was the legal owner of the part/ car etc.

Am I correct with this reasoning?

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
I get enough crap here on this site because I seem to be the catch-all during disputes.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am sorry for ever saying you suck...but truly...you do suck.

[Zedder]

I am sure that it is illegal in Ontario and verified this years ago after a guy tried to sell me a wrecked SS with a mint US shell and told me that all I needed to do was have an OPP officer "watch" the swap. Absolute BS!!!

[firez]

You are correct in that statement Mark . It is an old wives tale that as long as a police officer is a witnesss of the transfer it is legal. This hooby is starting to suck for the guys in it for the love of these cars.

[PeteLeathersac]

Vin location transfer is absolutely illegal in Canada and the States!
Below is a few samples of some US States views about Vin locations...pretty scary stuff considering what's gone on over the years also some of the cars that exist out there now?.

In some ways wouldn't it be a good thing if more who could afford the legal costs and risks of vehicle seizure actually pursued these issues back to those who may have commited the fraudlant acts in the first place?.

Like FireZ, I've become somewhat disenchanted of late considering the state of the hobby also some of the auction realities we've seen here in recent months too..
And isn't it sad when you think about the history lost and original real deal cars that were sacrificed to create these hot potato cars?.

~ Pete


STATE & CONTACT INFORMATION

Alabama Motor Vehicle Division

www.ador.state.al.us/motorvehicle/index.html
334/242-9000
No changes to the VIN or manufacturer's plate without the approval of the Motor Vehicle Division.

Alaska Division of Motor Vehicles

www.state.ak.us/dmv
907/269-5572
No changes to VIN or manufacturer's plate permitted.

Arizona Department of Transportation, Motor Vehicle Division

www.azdot.gov/mvd/index.asp
602/255-0072 Phoenix
520/629-9808 Tuscon
800/251-5866 Toll-free in Arizona
Vehicle must be inspected by the state Motor Vehicle Division when any changes are made. Three levels of inspection are required depending on the changes made. Contact the MVD before making any changes to vehicle identity.

Arkansas Office Of Motor Vehicles

www.arkansas.gov/dfa/motor_vehicle/mv_index.html
501/682-4692
State law mandates VIN verification by a law enforcement officer for salvage or restored vehicles. Have the VIN verified before making any changes or alterations.

California Department of Motor Vehicles

www.dmv.ca.gov
916/657-7971
800/777-0133
No person shall intentionally deface, destroy, or alter the motor number, other distinguishing number, or identification mark of a vehicle required or employed for registration purposes without written authorization from the department, nor shall any person place or stamp any serial, motor, or other number or mark upon a vehicle, except one assigned thereto by the department.
This section does not prohibit the restoration by an owner of the original vehicle identification number when the department authorizes the restoration, nor prevent any manufacturer from placing in the ordinary course of business numbers or marks upon new motor vehicles or new parts thereof.

Colorado Division of Motor Vehicles

www.revenue.state.co.us/mv_dir/home.asp
303/205-5600
Contact the Department of Motor Vehicles for more information.

Connecticut Department of Motor Vehicles

www.ct.gov/dmv
800/842-8222 Toll-free in Connecticut
860/263-2700 Hartford area/out-of-state
Vehicle must go through a Composite Motor Vehicle inspection at a state inspection facility if any significant changes have been made. State may assign a new VIN. Salvage vehicles must go through a state inspection.

District of Columbia Dept. of Motor Vehicles

www.dmv.washingtondc.gov
202/727-5000
Contact the Department of Motor Vehicle for more information.

Florida Department of Motor Vehicles

www.hsmv.state.fl.us
800/922-9000
Contact DMV or Department of Highway Safety for information.

Georgia Department of Motor Vehicle Safety

www.dmvs.ga.gov/motor
404/362-6500
DMVS wants to see salvaged and rebuilt vehicles both before and after they're painted.

Hawaii

www.co.honolulu.hi.us/csd/vehicle
www.co.maui.hi.us/departments/Motor
Vehicles/index.htm
www.kauai.gov
808/873-3546 State DMV
808/532-4324 Honolulu
808/270-7363 Maui
808/241-6577 Kauai
Hawaii motor vehicle licensing and registration is done county-by-county. Contact each county for specific information.

Idaho Transportation Department

www.itd.idaho.gov/dmv
208/334-8660
Not permissible to change or alter a vehicle or engine number. See Idaho motor vehicle statutes for more information.

Illinois Vehicle Services Department

www.cyberdriveillinois.com/services/services_motorists.html
800/252-3000
217/78-6992
Contact the Vehicle Services Department for specific information.

Indiana Bureau Of Motor Vehicles

www.ai.org/bmv/index.html
317/233-6000
All vehicles must have VIN inspected whenever they are titled in the state for the first time.

Iowa Department of Transportation, Motor Vehicle Division

www.dot.state.ia.us/mvd/index.htm
800/532-1121 Toll-free in Iowa
515/244-9124 Des Moines
Contact the Motor Vehicle Division for more specific information.

Kansas Department of Revenue, Division of Motor Vehicles

www.ksrevenue.org/dmv.htm
785/296-3621
Vehicles registered on a county-by-county basis. Contact the Division of Motor Vehicles with specific questions.

Kentucky Division of Motor Vehicle Licensing

www.mvlky.gov
www.kentucky.gov
502/564-5301
Contact the Division of Motor Vehicle Licensing for more specific information.

Louisiana Office of Motor Vehicles

omv.dps.state.la.us
877/368-5463
Contact the Office of Motor Vehicles for specific information. Another option is www.legis.state.la.us.

Maine Bureau of Motor Vehicles

www.state.me.us/sos/bmv
207/624-9000
Contact BMV for specific information, included on the state Web site.

Maryland Motor Vehicle Administration

http://mva.state.md.us
800/638-8347 24-hour information
800/248-4160 Vehicle services
Contact the Motor Vehicle Administration for specific information.

Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles

www.mass.gov/rmv
800/858-3926 Toll-free in Massachusetts
617/351-4500
Contact the RMV for specific information related to your restoration effort.

Michigan Secretary of State

www.michigan.gov/sos
517/322-1460
Go to the Web site and search for vehicle restoration.

Minnesota Department of Public Safety

www.dps.state.mn.us/dvs
651/296-6911
For more information on Minnesota's vehicle codes, e-mail [email protected].

Mississippi Motor Vehicle Commission

www.mmvc.state.ms.us
601/987-3995
For more information about state motor vehicle laws and policies, e-mail [email protected].

Missouri Department of Revenue

www.dor.state.mo.us
573/751-4450
Missouri has a new salvage definition law. See the Missouri DOR Web site for details.

Montana Department of Justice

www.doj.state.mt.us/driving
406/444-2026
See DOJ Web site for policy on proper handling of motor vehicle restoration and licensing under the law.

Nebraska Department of Motor Vehicles

www.dmv.state.ne.us
402/471-3918
For specifics, e-mail the state from Web page www.dmv.state.ne.us/admin/email.

Nevada Department of Motor Vehicles

www.dmvnv.com
702/486-4368 Las Vegas area
775/684-4368 Sparks/Carson City
877-368-7828 Toll-free in rural Nevada
For more information, e-mail the Nevada DMV at [email protected]

New Hampshire Division of Motor Vehicles

www.nh.gov/safety/dmv/
603/271-3111
Salvage vehicles must have a salvage inspection before registration. Once inspected, a DSMV 547 will be issued. Contact the DMV for more details.

New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission

www.state.nj.us/mvc
609/292-6500
888/486-3339 toll free in New Jersey
Contact the New Jersey MVC for more information.

New Mexico Motor Vehicle Division

www.state.nm.us/tax/mvd
888/683-4636
For more information, e-mail the NMVD at [email protected].

New York Department of Motor Vehicles

www.nydmv.state.ny.us
No telephone information available.
Visit the New York DMV Web site for detailed information.

North Carolina Division of Motor Vehicles

www.ncdot.org/dmv
919/715-7000
North Carolina has a Title Registration Manual, as well as other booklets, for restorers with specific questions about state vehicle laws.

North Dakota Department of Transportation

www.state.nd.us/dot
701/328-2725
For specific information on Mustang restoration, e-mail the DOT at [email protected].

Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles

http://bmv.ohio.gov
614/752-7500
800/589-8247 Toll-free in Ohio
E-mail the BMV from Web page bmv.ohio.gov/registar_email.html.

Oklahoma Motor Vehicle Division

www.oktax.state.ok.us/mvhome.html
800/522-8165 Toll-free
405/521-2913
See the MVD Web site for detailed information.

Oregon Driver & Motor Vehicle Services

www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV
503/945-5000
See Web site for details on salvage/rebuilt vehicles.

Pennsylvania Driver & Vehicle Services

www.dmv.state.pa.us
800/932-4600
717/391-6190
Strict regarding salvage/rebuilt motor vehicles. All vehicles are subject to a state inspection. See Web site for more specifics.

Rhode Island Division of Motor Vehicles

www.dmv.state.ri.us
401/588-3020
Vehicles that have been rebuilt from salvage must be inspected by the state. For more details, see the Web site.

South Carolina Division of Motor Vehicles

www.scdmvonline.com
Telephone numbers available online, county by county.
Help is available via [email protected].

South Dakota Department of Public Safety

www.state.sd.us/dps
605/773-3178
Little information on the state Web site. Call for more detailed information.

Tennessee Department of Safety

www.tennessee.gov/safety
615/741-3954

Texas Department of Transportation

www.dot.state.tx.us
No telephone number available.
Safety inspection required when you put a vehicle on the road. More information available on the Web site.

Utah Division of Motor Vehicles

http://dmv.utah.gov
800/368-8824 Toll-free in Utah
801/297-7780
Go to Reconstructed Vehicles on the Web site for more details.

Vermont Department of Motor Vehicles

www.aot.state.vt.us/dmv
802/828-2000
Little information available on the Web site. Call for more information.

Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles

www.dmv.state.va.us
866/368-5463
800/435-5137
Antique and classic cars eligible for special license tags. See Web site for specifics.

Washington Department of Licensing

www.dol.wa.gov
360/902-3770
See Web site for e-mail address for questions.

West Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles

www.wvdot.com
304/558-3900
No information available on the Web site for restorers.

Wisconsin Division of Motor Vehicles

www.dot.state.wi.us/drivers
414/266-1148
608/261-2583
For more information visit Web site.

Wyoming Department of Transportation

http://dot.state.wy.us
307/777-4714
Specific policies addressing salvage and rebuilt vehicles. See Web site for more information.

[ANDY M]

"Like FireZ, I've become somewhat disenchanted of late considering the state of the hobby also some of the auction realities we've seen here in recent months".
Pete, have you ever considered becoming a reference librarian?

[ZL1#17]

WITH THAT KIND OF RESEARCH, You can come with me to court any day!