King of the Muscle Cars

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by marxjunk

LEE...You just described an A12....a purpose built race car....

But it wasn't. Chrysler never designed the car for the purpose of say winning NHRA B/Stock.

What the A12 was is a car that was a "turn-key muscle car" with the best features that Chrysler had to offer and most important - be affordable. A car that could beat 90% of the muscle cars on the street at that time. A car that was to be sold in the thousands. That $3800 price I posted was MSRP. You could have easily drove one away for $3550 - HALF the price of a ZL1 Camaro.

The only cars that really gave the A12s a run for it's money were the 1969 L72 COPO Camaros and Chevelles. Same principle as the A12: L72 427/425 HP engine, 4 speed or TH400 (mandatory), PFDB (mandatory) HD cooling package, a Ram Air system that worked (Camaro), RWL tires and 4.10 12 bolt rear.

[442w30]

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

If you include the ZL1 Camaros then you have to include the 1965 A990 Race Hemi Chryslers that would beat any muscle car INCLUDING the ZL1s

....yet one was street-legal, while the other was not.

[SS4Real]

Many automotive magazines and muscle car reviews have often considered the 1970 Chevelle SS in general the all-American Muscle car. It was fast for the day, muscular looking and affordable and available to the masses. As far as the King of the muscle cars, there are a handful that would compete for that title. I grew up in So Cal where the car culture was huge. Most of us favored Camaro's, Mustang's or Chevelle's. Mopar's (especially the winged versions) were rare. I would say the all-American moniker is accurate, however, the title of King will always be up for debate. It took years before the legends were made and their subsequent prices and collectibility status have influenced that title.

[marxjunk]

its a race car..call it anything ya want, every mopar freak on the planet knows they are race cars..heck..i'm a GTO guy and i know A12s are race cars...cheap yes..but race car...

no disrespect..but..its a race car....

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by marxjunk

its a race car..call it anything ya want, every mopar freak on the planet knows they are race cars..heck..i'm a GTO guy and i know A12s are race cars...cheap yes..but race car...

no disrespect..but..its a race car....

Why is it a race car? Because it came standard with a 4.10 rear?

All Chrysler did was make their Super Performance Axle Package/Super Track Pak standard minus the PFDB.

IMO - a 4.10 rear was streetable. Not like the standard 4.33 posi rear on the 1968 RA II GTO.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by marxjunk

its a race car..call it anything ya want, every mopar freak on the planet knows they are race cars..heck..i'm a GTO guy and i know A12s are race cars...cheap yes..but race car...

no disrespect..but..its a race car....

Say it one more time Mark.

If this is moving towards a consensus, we should probably separate the post production "built" cars from the assembly plant cars - such as the Yenkos, Baldwin Motion, Mr. Norm & Shelbys.

[mr 707]

There will never be a consensus on this subject. guys love whats in THEIR OWN BARN.

[Jonesy]

Originally Posted by mr 707

There will never be a consensus on this subject. guys love whats in THEIR OWN BARN.

EXACTLY

[1971ls6]

I have raced in the pure stock muscle car drag race for the last 10 years. The L88 vette,ZL-1 camaro, A12 roadrunners, 440 6 pack challenger, 68 RA11 firebird and the hemi cuda are always in the top qualifying group, don't forget the L89 vette, chevelle and camaro' as well.

The automatic is faster than the 4 speed in 95% of these. Keep in mind that they require the stock size tire that came on THAT car, 70 hemi cuda and road runner had f-60 tires, that helped a lot .

With the independent rear, the vette leaves the line the quickest.

The fords just can't keep up, even the FE 428 mustangs, the buicks are mid pack, with the Gto ahead of them, especially with the RAiv

[earntaz]

Back in the day at Amarillo Dragway I ran my brand spankin' new 70 1/2 Z-28 -- LT-1/4sp/4:10s. I ran that car for most of the summer in B/PS. Held both ends of the track record there with 13.88 ET and 104.22 MPH -- that was at almost 3800 ft of altitude. Corrected to sea level -- 13.25 and 109.21. TAZ