E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!

[427.060]

Dave, I see no reason for you to get flamed. I agree with you. Given all the negativity, Bergy has posted WAY more info than I would have.
James

[talwell]

vfitom-

As a member of this community you should be freely forth coming with any information that you have in regards to this car. I dont in my opinion feel that bergy should have to pass some litman's test that you have designated in regards to a car that he rightfully owns regardless of the history of it or how it got to this point.

I think all of us need to look at the objective of Yenko.net. In my eyes we are all here to share information, knowledge, history, facts, or just a common general interest in the muscle cars of the late 60's and early 70's, With this being said, I dont think that any member should come here with a potential level of knowledge regarding a vehicle of discussion and expect anything more than a thank you from anyone that can use that knowledge to thier's or all our benefit. Noone should have to earn access to any information or be held at bay with a carrot dangling in thier face of supposed information that will only be provided based on the knowledge owner's decision. If you come here without the free will and desire to openly share knowledge, hold open and fruitful discussion, share memories or even just express your desire to gain knowledge I think I speak for many to say you may very well not be welcome in this open forum. This applies to anyone that fits this category of one sided membership and forum participation.

[bergy]

COPO140 - Re-read your own posts. You went from saying that the car had "a few bolt on items", to possibly a "sub frame", to "possibly some sheet metal". You've acknowledged all of these possibilities yourself (and you aren't even the one doing the research).

Marlin - you get a lot more cooperation at DMV if you're researching cars that you actually own. Also, you have to pay for every record. If you send in $5.00, you get one record.

vfitom - You have 25 years with the PA State Police - many of us consider you a hero (including me)! Get your courage up man. Since you have disclosed info from our personal email conversation - you're email statements indicate that you are obviously afraid to disclose information because people "in the know" are mad about the envelope story disclosure. You've indicated to me that the owners of #616414 in 2000 made statements that "led you to a junkyard (in a round about way)". You have also indicated that there was another "Tom" present during your 2000 inspection and he may have been the source of the envelope story. Come on man - we're on the 24th page of this stinkin' thread! What are you waiting for - tell what you know.

To all - It's pretty obvious that this is a BLOOD SPORT (not a hobby). When a guy like vfitom is intimidated - wow.

[old5.0]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To all - It's pretty obvious that this is a BLOOD SPORT (not a hobby). When a guy like vfitom is intimidated - wow. </div></div>

Did you check the trunk for Jimmy Hoffa's skeleton yet?

Seriously, what's with all the Super Secret Squirrel action? Is somebody going to get whacked? It either is a Yenko or it isnt, but nobody is gonna know for sure until all the info is out in the open.

[vfitom]

You seem fascinated with my prior profession. Maybe you should have joined the force in the past...I also worked with the FBI. I hear you did too. Is that true? FYI, I'm not intimidated, just waiting for your complete and truthful answer to the question: to whom was the envelope offered for sale and by whom? PM me the answer if you like. You asked if it were me in the recent past. I told you no. I asked you for the source and what you know, but you will not divulge! Comeon! Be fair. And Talwell, because of Bergy's reluctance to answer my question(s), this is why I am not so forthcoming with info. Hope you understand. To offer a car in an envelope is illegal and I would have wanted no part of it. If anyone thinks it was me, they are mistaken and wrongfully informed, or hiding something. Bergy, are you afraid and intimidated to disclose same? I'm almost 100% sure I know anyway. Bottom line-I do not want to be at odds with anyone over this car, and I will even help Bergy search for this car body in my neck of the woods if they want me too (if one may still exist). Hell, but now I'm hearing that there may be 2 titled cars with 616414; a restored one and Bergy's. What a mess that would be. There is a '69 body in a yard that I know of for years without a VIN tag and the back half partially missing. Think its worth a look? Also, what will the VIN be when you obtain the state issued special VIN plate that mounts on the firewall? Does the title indicate that any duplicates were issued? Is your title a duplicate copy or original? Are all the prior owner title sequence numbers listed, or were owners skipped? Lots of things to look at here in backtracking. Good luck.

[COPO140]

Bergy,
Can you please explain this statement? &quot;A large percentage of my car is 616414&quot;? Thanks

[Tracker1]

Tom you have said the car is a re-tag anyway you look at it. You have said you will help Bergy find the body if it still exists. I assume from this that you have unassailable eyewitness (your own eyes) evidence that this car Bergy has is not the Yenko car. So you either saw the remainder of the Yenko in that junkyard at the same time bergy's car was being &quot;assembled&quot; or you saw the little bit of 587974 that was left after the rest of IT was being assembled under the VIN tag of 616414?

I am not questioning your assertions - you seem as sure as Bergy does in his point of view and that's fair - I am just trying to get it (the motive) straight in my own head as this is getting confusing.

So based on your point of view we have to deduct that someone took the following items and put them on an original spoiler car ( which 587974 was not) which means a THIRD car was involved:

-pass side frame rail extension exh hanger reinforcement
-orig single 3/8&quot; fuel sender
-orig single 3/8&quot; fuel line
-9204 booster dated for 03B car
-PS with fast ratio PS arm
-original PDB car
-orig deep groove PS pully
-orig 13/16 HD sway bar
-HD 5 leaf springs
-HD coil springs
-orig door with RG overspray t
-orig spoiler car (F&amp;R)
-orig dash cluster with 140 speedo and holes for S&amp;W tach

So they either wanted to have these special parts to clone a COPO, which they abandoned in favour of a Z28 clone, yet when the car was advertised as a Z28 clone none of these &quot;added&quot; parts were mentioned as special features as to the trouble the sellers went through to accurately clone a Z - &quot;we have even added such things as original deep groove pulleys, HD springs..etc. in this incredible accurate re-creation&quot;.

I have not seen any language like this in theBay auction. So why do it and not call attention to it? OR the easy answer is that none of these parts were on the spoiler car they used so they just put them on not caring about their significance. They were just parts. Ok, I can see that.

But these people who have the trim tag and have the cowl stamping stopped short of the VIN tag saying, &quot;no thanks&quot;? If I had those two pieces and I was of that mindset (cloning) I would definitely pay the 20-23K to get the car that wore the VIN.

Unless the trim tag and the cowl stamping no longer exist and replacements have been mocked up in anticipation of resurrecting 616414 out of thin air. I know some people would not pay the sum of 23K, instead saying &quot;let's just get a re-done VIN tag from the same guy who made the TT for us.&quot; Perhaps you know this as well.

I hope you and Bergy can figure this out together Tom. I'm just trying to get my own score card straight. As a former police officer I hope you appreciate my attempt to establish &quot;motive&quot; [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img] I just can't follow the logic based on what has been revealed in this thread and think you may have info to fill in the gaps.

Sorry if I have only further confused things.

[bergy]

vfitom - no title duplicates, continous ownership since the beginning, title transfers at each change of ownership leading all the way to current, registrations and insurance info., etc. Good luck to whoever may have made up a vin tag and restored a car to go with it! Since there are no duplicates, it would have to be a Broadway title (or other title company) transaction in another state. Heck yes! I want the upper cowl section to the car - find it and let's make a deal.

[vfitom]

Tracker, I only saw one car one time-in 2000 when we looked at 616414 on the dash and the other VIN on the cowl. No assemblies, no junkyards, etc. as you state. Thanks

[bergy]

PM sent to vfitom with all that I know about the &quot;car in an envelope&quot; story. Heck, I didn't add it to this thread - just read back and see where it came from!