Meaning of "numbrs matching" opinions please

[69hurstSC]

this is not as complicated as it seems. #'s matching (IMO)is simply the drivetrain (engine, trans, rearend) that the particular vehicle rolled off the assembly line with. if you grenaded the motor and replaced it with a factory correct replacement block, you no longer have matching #'s. heads, water pumps, bumpers, mirrors, to me this is all accecptable to replace.
restamping = NON #'s matching
there are a few particular grey areas that must be discussed. lets take a 69 Yenko Novas for example. these cars were born as SS 396 cars and of course those were pulled for 427's. is this still a #'s matching car? another example would be the 69 Hurst Olds. they were converted to 455's. what is everyones opinion of a car that is still dealership new, but converted somehow before the 1st original buyer purchases that car?

[Zedder]

Rick is right...it's not the Corvette guys fault...their just the first (and it seems the only ones) who were prepared to accept the fact that WE (as in car enthusiasts) created this situation by apply a much greater value to "matching numbers" cars. Naturally, those seeking to get greater value for their cars and, in some cases, those who simply didn't want to have their car looked down upon because the original motor was trashed like so many were back in the day, started "restoring the motor numbers just like any other part of the car. Originally, the Corvette guys (and I was one of them at the time - mid 90's) were on a mission to uncover any deception during the judging process and they were pretty succesful. However, the restampers got better and soon it was nearly impossible for even the most seasoned judge to call a restamped block. So, rather than fight something that they couldn't stop, they decided to accept the current state of the hobby and "allow" restamps for judging. The sad part of this is that the actual stamping on the engine block carries such little weight, that it really doesn't have a huge impact on the car's score.

Those struggling with the change in terminology need to just accept that this is where the hobby has come to, whether you like it or not, you or I won't change it! Kinda like the whole "clone" or "re-creation" thing. In the '70's when I was a teen, we put SS hoods and emblems on any plain Jane Camaro or Chevelle we bought - everyone did! We openly called them "fake SS's" and no one thought anything about it since we really didn't know how to tell a real car from a fake anyway I still hate the "clone" term, but the reality is that it takes some of the deception out of building a fake and maybe it's better to at least call a spade a spade and accept that it happens.

I'm not ready to restamp a motor personally yet, but I would consider buying a car with a restamped motor if it was disclosed and well done. Frankly, after the recent threads here and on Team Camaro regarding this, I think the Corvette guys are smarter than we give them credit for...you seldom see a restamp or motor bashing thread on the Corvette boards any more. Yesterday, I decided that I will never "guarantee" another motor etc. to be original becuase it's just not worth the BS that follows as you try and "prove" it to people that have no interest in buying a the car in the first place! Look at the BS that Jerry MacNeish is having piled on him for "certifying" the Green Z at Legendary...the comments being thrown at him are simply not fair and it sickens me to see how negative the hobby has become.

[mrrec]

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Everyone keeps blaming the Corvette guys......So to point fingers at one group is ridiculous. Thanks
Rick H.

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If you're talking about me, Rick H., you're barking up the wrong tree. I didn't "blame" anyone or "point fingers" at anyone. You asked for opinions and you got mine. I stated that the NCRS guys seem to encourage restamps. Read the judging manuals. I used an example of a Corvette parts seller that told me he altered dates. Fact. Could be Camaro or Chevelle parts seller but HE told me.

Dave

[Salvatore]

I like and agree with what X11 71 71 said! NEVER had these numbers and "Do not drive" problems till the non car guys got into the mix.

[Rick H]

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If you're talking about me, Rick H., you're barking up the wrong tree.

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No I wasn't talking about you Dave and my response wasn't even to your post. An further more it wasn't directed at one person, it was directed at the general statement that the Corvette guys started it all. Which in my opinion is not the case but is equally done among all the classic car makes.

How about reading the every post.

Rick H.