New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!

[427king]

Actually his idea isnt far fetched. Im sure someone that buys a car for big money and simply made a mistake buying a nicely done clone for big$$ could easily change the tag himself and start a lawsuit. I see it all the time on parts, someone finds a part on ebay for 1/2 of what they just paid and suddenly they want to return the part or all of a sudden they noticed a defect. That trim tag law does give this type of person a little loophole if the buyer is dishonest and simply wants out of his own mistake . Try proving as a seller that the trim tag on a car isnt the one you sold it with.

[Charley Lillard]

Taking a nice pic of the trim tag on the car before you sell it would probably cover it especially if it was a ebay add that everyone saw.

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
Taking a nice pic of the trim tag on the car before you sell it would probably cover it especially if it was a ebay add that everyone saw.

[/ QUOTE ]

That, and a clear declaration by both parties in the bill of sale acknowledging the state of the car, including the trim tag (and everything else for that matter).

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually his idea isnt far fetched. Im sure someone that buys a car for big money and simply made a mistake buying a nicely done clone for big$$ could easily change the tag himself and start a lawsuit. I see it all the time on parts, someone finds a part on ebay for 1/2 of what they just paid and suddenly they want to return the part or all of a sudden they noticed a defect. That trim tag law does give this type of person a little loophole if the buyer is dishonest and simply wants out of his own mistake . Try proving as a seller that the trim tag on a car isnt the one you sold it with.

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case he would be a criminal, based on this law. I doubt the owner who swapped tags (because he was unhappy with the car), would then report it to the authorities (knowing what he did was unlawful) so that he could get his money back from the previous owner. This thing has been what iffed to death. I think there's a better chance of a ZL1 engine floating up from the bottom of the Connecticut river.

[PeteLeathersac]

Ok, here it's Nov. 20'th and thanks to Lynn and others hard work, the Oklahoma legislation has been law for a few weeks already.. So what now as there's obviously still tons of tags selling daily on eBay and elsewhere?. If there's any chance of at least getting eBay to stop assisting the problem, should we who care maybe band together in some way and do something to get eBay's attention?. I'm thinking we perhaps target a few specific auctions and in a consistant fashion, report them as illegal items being sold and citing the Oklahoma law?. I just can't help but feel if this things truly gonna' have any bite, the sooner we act, the more chance of it ever being possible?. Anyone else have any other ideas...or care?.

Here's an current example we could start with...even has the Vin tag included!.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Chev...sspagenameZWDVW


~ Pete

[Allen]

This isn't Ebay's problem. They provide the venue for selling things.... that's it.

Using the logic of it being Ebay's problem, then all swap meets, auto trader magazines, car corrals at a show, Hemmings, etc. should all be charged with policing the cars for sale. Where there any cars with tag issues at Vettefest for sale? If yes, is it Vettefest's problem to resolve?

The car owners are to be accountable for their actions, not something/someone else.

[PeteLeathersac]

No it's not eBay's problem...at least not unless they end up liable to someone who can afford to push a case through the courts?.
The immediate problem more belongs to the innocents who stuck w/ a fraudulent deal and can't afford the legal struggles...also to an extent those of us who care about the history and values of genuine cars sufferng as they're watered down w/ the tagged stuff?.
With eBay being the major venue for loose tags, getting co-operation from them would put the biggest dent of all in this action...also perhaps make other venues think about offering their sale as well?.
As far as cars w/ tag issues for sale anywhere , that's no doubt too tough of an issue to consider policing or debating each case...but the loose tag action being shut down is possible and the sooner that could ever happen, the less new tag issue cars are created?.
I have no magic answers nor feel like taking on a giant either...but I admire how far Lynn and the others have taken things so far and do feel there truly is a possibility to get eBay to include the loose tag sales in their prohibited items lists if we get on them now while the legislation is fresh?. Anyone else feel it's possible too or what?.

~ Pete

[Verne_Frantz]

Allen,
While "technically" I'd have to agree that it's not "ebay's problem", ebay does have a list of items that are on their banned list, such as firearms and porn. As I have stated before, I and others have sent ebay messages urging them to add trim tags to their banned list, but their response is that those tags contain no "vehicle specific" information like a VIN tag does. Of course they're wrong, because there are no two alike, but they've been blind to that.
Now that selling a tag is illegal in one state, I'd think they'd have to take notice and not allow the ad.
Ebay, swap meets, auctions, Hemmings, etc are not being put in the position of policemen looking for cars with questionable tags. But the simple act of selling a tag itself or accepting an ad for one for sale through their venue is knowingly allowing the law to be broken.

I would think a good "next step" would be to send a hard copy of the law (with a cover letter) to ebay, Hemmings, etc, then wait to see if they do the right thing. I would also be inclined to let Lynn decide on the wording and method for that "next step". I hope he will offer his opinion here.

Verne

[x Baldwin Motion]

Anyone else have any other ideas...or care?.

Here's an current example we could start with...even has the Vin tag included!.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Chev...sspagenameZWDVW


~ Pete

[/ QUOTE ]


from the ad; THIS TRIM TAG WILL ONLY BE SOLD WITH BUYER READING AND AGREEING TO BELOW SALES CONTRACT, IF YOU DO NOT AGREE DO NOT BID!

******THIS TRIM TAG IS BEING SOLD SOLEY WITH THE INTENT FOR BUYERS PERSONAL USE AND NOVELTY USE ONLY, AND IS NOT SOLD FOR PURPOSES OF RESELLING OR MISREPRESENTING OF CARS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM AND THEREFORE WITH THE BUYING OF THIS TRIM TAG THE BUYER AGREES AND UNDERSTANDS IT IS THERE SOLE RESPONSIBILTY AND WILL BE BUYERS SOLE LIABILITY ON WHAT HE OR SHE DOES WITH SAID TRIM TAG , SELLER HAS NO CONTROL AND ASSUMES NO LIABILITY WHATSOEVER AFTER SALE IS COMPLETED ********


who would buy that for a novelty at $100.00?
VIN removal and sale is a federal crime, is it not?

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else have any other ideas...or care?.

Here's an current example we could start with...even has the Vin tag included!.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Chev...sspagenameZWDVW


~ Pete

[/ QUOTE ]

What a doofus. Calling a VIN tag an "other tag" doesnt suddenly make it legal. Adding a disclaimer at the end doesnt do anything either but serve notice that he knows it's illegal. He doesnt seem to get the fact that the felony is SELLING the VIN tag. If the buyer puts it on his car, that is a second felony. If he sells that car misrepresenting it as an original car, that is fraud which is usually something that civil lawsuits get filed over.