Meaning of "numbrs matching" opinions please

[mrrec]

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Everyone keeps blaming the Corvette guys......So to point fingers at one group is ridiculous. Thanks
Rick H.

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If you're talking about me, Rick H., you're barking up the wrong tree. I didn't "blame" anyone or "point fingers" at anyone. You asked for opinions and you got mine. I stated that the NCRS guys seem to encourage restamps. Read the judging manuals. I used an example of a Corvette parts seller that told me he altered dates. Fact. Could be Camaro or Chevelle parts seller but HE told me.

Dave

[Salvatore]

I like and agree with what X11 71 71 said! NEVER had these numbers and "Do not drive" problems till the non car guys got into the mix.

[Jeff H]

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I like and agree with what X11 71 71 said! NEVER had these numbers and "Do not drive" problems till the non car guys got into the mix.

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I disagree with that because back in the late 80's a #'s matching Z28 or SS396 was out of my price range so I couldn't buy one. Into the early 90's and the same thing, they continued to be out of my price range. Then in the late 90's I decided to make it happen and got a large loan so I could buy what I wanted to have. I've been through several loans now to get where I am with my 2 cars. So to me, #'s matching has always meant original drivetrain and combine that with a high performance car they have always commanded a premium. When the stock market tanked in 2001, everything changed and investors got into the musclecar market. I'd like to complain about the prices going up, but the good thing about the price increase is that it allowed for much better quality restorations. And today, people who have the funds, are willing to spend the money for the car they always wanted. But it's the sellers(and it's not just classic car dealers) have manipulated the term "matching number's" to sound like original equipment when it may not be original to that particular car. The only reason they do it is to inflate the price. "Matching number's" is not used to win awards at car shows, it's used to represent the car as original and increase the price/value. That's how I remember things happening but I'm sure everyone has their own thoughts and it's not really something anyone needs to argue about.

[Salvatore]

Well I guess I missed that part back in the 80's about people talking about matching numbers. Today matching numbers to me doesn't mean all original to the car. It should but it doesn't to me. It means the numbers all match each other. So I am more aware of that when I look at these cars. The words "matching numbers" can be misleading.

[Hylton]

Just drive the damn things......

[Salvatore]

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Just drive the damn things......

[/ QUOTE ]I like this post the best!!!

[ANDY M]

Hey Sam, you mean like this:

Just love that sound of WOT!
Nothing wrong with numbers, but they can sure hold back performance vs. originality.

The car has been slightly modified since SCR. Had to replace the cam, and get some meat on the new wheels
Can't wait till next year.

[SS4Real]

Dale McIntosh's opinion as quoted on the Team Chevelle website and the best definition I have seen:

1. Engine block should be original to the car and where applicable, the engine ID and partial VIN of the car should be present and not restamped. All appropriate external equipment should be on the engine. For example, if it came with smog equipment (A.I.R.) then it should have the smog equipment especially if the engine is coded as such.
2. Heads don't have be original to the car but should be of same type and casting dates should be appropriate. Naturally it's easy if the heads are original.
3. Intake should be correct casting number and casting date.
4. Carb, distributor, exhaust manifolds should be correct casting/part numbers and casting dates.
5. Obvious items that are replaced due to wear and tear such as water pump, alternator, p/s pump, a/c compressor, plugs/wires/oil filter etc should be correct type. Rebuilt alternators are available with correct numbers and dates however.
5. Transmission and rear should be original to the car and have the correct ID and casting numbers.
6. I may differ with others on this one but the paint color(s) and interior should match what is on the Fisher Body plate as well. If the car originally was Sierra Fawn for example with tan bench seat interior and has been repainted resale red with black buckets, the car no longer matches the numbers on the body plate.

[Rick H]

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Well I guess I missed that part back in the 80's about people talking about matching numbers.

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Same here. Through the 70's and 80's I can not remember a time when it was it ever brought up.

Rick H.

[Verne_Frantz]

OK, I wasn't going to add my 2 cents to this, but I'm going out on a limb here..............

It is my belief that it WAS the Corvette people who started this whole mess of "matching numbers". Advertisements for cars for sale that 1st used the term "numbers match" were always for Corvettes. Afterall, they were the only marque of car in the hobby (that I know of) that has a National sanctioning body that allowed (if not encouraged) restamping on components for judging credit. As long as the "numbers matched" and appeared "as original", then FULL judging credit was allowed (and still is to this day!).

Now, as to your original question....... Since the term "numbers matching" has lost it's original meaning and is used by every seller who's found a correctly dated part, when I see that term used, I automatically assume it's a built, made, or bogus car. As others have stated, if the components were ORIGINAL, then that should be the statement.

No one really knows what "numbers matching" means; we all just know what we'd LIKE it to mean... But everyone knows what "Original Driveline" means!!!! No interpretation needed!

Thanks for the chance to vent.

Verne