Factory Stockers Unite!!!

[supergonzo]

Well Marlin we were going on the honor system that people who had "stock" muscle cars would bring "stock" muscle cars.

But low and behold, racers are racers, so some cars were not as exactly as stock as most average muscle cars fans remember them. So without trying to dampen anybody's enterprising spirit and still have a race that is true to the name "Factory Stock" we had to institute a few rule changes. I think they are liberal and allows the guys who have done some mods some leeway. This also does not discourage the average car show guy who represents most of our events participants.

So as an example if you are running 12.00's and can't idle below 2000 rpm without stalling......are you really stock??? I say no and so does virtually everyone else who participated, and all the BS you can come up with doesn't fool anyone. I am not talking to you personally of course.

If you truly have a stocker with a few mods you have nothing to worry about. The rules are self explanatory I think. We want everyone to come out an enjoy themselves and have a good time, its not for somebody to is trying to make a name for themselves or somehow change history. History itself has already demonstrated what the quickest Factory Stockers were. This is for enjoyment purposes only.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Ok, I understand - I guess. I am planning to build my next Yenko deuce as a Certified Pure Stocker by following the rules laid down by the PSMCDR crew in Stanton, MI. I've been to several of those events, and I really enjoy them. I think there is a distinct challenge to get the most out of a pure stocker by putting the time and effort into the buildup that GM couldn't do within their mfg parameters.

I think that what you are saying though, is that if I get all my ducks in a row by blueprinting everything to GM spec's, etc... that I might be disallowed as a pure stocker bec/ I'm faster than history? I'm not trying to be a hard asss here, but it sort of defeats the goal of trying to make your car faster! I wasn't around back in the 'day', so I don't have a basis for what historical cars ran - but I know that I (with help) have dramatically improved my own et & mph compared to my own history, and I plan to keep improving.

BTW: If you put me through a tear down, I would pass - but I know that my car will never idle smooth at 900rpm. I think the spec is actually 1000, and the best I can get it too right now is around 1200 - which is just fine since that's my launch rpm sometimes

[supergonzo]

Marlin, the stock LT-1 camshaft that was in your car was a solid, with a LSA of 116 degrees and a lift of .435 I believe. If THAT cam doesn't idle like a kitten purring quietly then NO camshaft does. Or you got the wrong cam.

I didn't say blueprinting your motor would be illegal, and todays technology has certainly improved ET's over the years.

I DID say that if you are running in the 12.20's your getting tested, and if you are running better than 12.00's your car is no longer a true representation of what a "stock" factory muscle car would run. I think we both know that to be true.
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Everybody wants to go faster naturally, but you can adjust the timing only so much, and only breathe on the motor so much, and tune till you are blue in the face...this does not make a 11 second stocker! Its makes a good F.A.S.T. class car though.
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Remember those Mopar ads with a blueprinted/tuned Hemi Roadrunner, with Ronnie Sox driving it getting mid-low 13's out of the car??? Do you think Ronnie didn't know how to drive?? I think giving everyone till 12.00's is fair enough for some tinkering.

[supergonzo]

I might be wrong on the lift, might have been higher .458/.484 something like that. As I remember they have a pretty big overlap , but used the wide LSA to smooth it out, so they would idle fine

[njsteve]

I thinking about driving the hemi Charger down there. I live about 45 minutes away and the weather is looking nice for this weekend. I dont think I can run in any of the official classes as the car still has the original set of headers on it that were installed at the dealership when new. (and yes I have the original dealership invoice documenting it) and also the car is riding on the original Amercian Racing mags that have been on it the same amount of time. Is there a "fun run" class I can run the car in? Or am I relegated to the show field?

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat...0&fpart=all

[supergonzo]

There is a fun run class, for cars that don't quite meet the Factory Stock rules. Its called MCE, Muscle Car Eliminator.

Be glad to have ya, awesome looking ride man WOW

[Verne_Frantz]

I just might bring my '62............

Put it in whatever class you want to. I'll just be happy to ring it out a bit. It's been quite a few years since I staged that car. I don't care who's alongside me. I'm going to run it to win.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

[ QUOTE ]
I might be wrong on the lift, might have been higher .458/.484 something like that. As I remember they have a pretty big overlap , but used the wide LSA to smooth it out, so they would idle fine

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what my cam card says, but I keep it in the glove box for these very type of discussions. I simply went to the GM dealer and ordered up the blueprint LT1 cam/lifters. I'm sure other owners could/can get their deuce to idle smooth at 900, but I can't - and therefore I don't think that idle rpm should be used as a barometer to gauge how 'stock' a car is. I think you are saying in a earlier post that the idle quality is not the only test of 'stockness', so then I should be ok. I'm not sure that comparing today's cars to a ronnie sox mag article from 35 years ago is appropriate either, but... that's just me. I think even Ed Hedrick 'may' have had a few bad runs here or there

As I type this discussion, I'm realizing what my point is - I hope! Having been to 'stock' events that were put on by different organizations, I have found that the most thorough is the PSMCDR in Stanton - specifically, the Certified Stock class. I plan to build my next deuce within their parameters, and get it Certified through their tear-down process. My concern is that I will bring a legit Certified Stock car to your event, and get deemed a cheater because of rule changes, or different testing procedures, or running too fast, or....???... I would suggest that rather than reinventing the wheel, maybe just piggyback off of their efforts? (maybe not a Certified tear-down process yet, but a similar intrepretation of 'stock').

[COPO PETE]

Marlin,
The reason for the rules "changes" are because of JJ and I. Last Nov. the crops were off early, and the weather east looked awsume, so JJ and I each spent a grand each in fuel, hotels and beer and thought we would help the car count at this fairly new event. Besides, Andrew H had been bugging me for years to go down to that track. We had a good idea we would be the quickest, but also knew we would be racing each other all week-end,( best 2 outta 3), so no one should get there panties in a knot.
The week end went well with amazing barometer reading, and everyone was about 3 mph and 3 tenths quicker than normal. Wayne Nelson set a new record in FAST at 10.59
(He was back last week-end and was stuggling to get high 10's.) Anyways, we had a good time, car went a 11.75 and JJ 11.58 and seemed everything was cool when we started back on our 13 hour return drive.
The next week, we get gangbanged on there message board, so they decide we have to race in FAST next time against overbored, rollerized, punched and stroked cars.
They don't have to worry cause we won't be back. I don't need to drive 26 hours round trip to take that kind of abuse.
So they get some dork to come up with the rule that a car must pull 15 inches of vacuum @ 900 rpm, or automatic FAST class for you. You can take a time machine back to 1969, and you will not get a ZL-1 Camaro or a L88 Vette to pull that kinda #. Actually , it also makes LS6 cars, L72 cars illegal Not up on my Pontiac #'s , but pretty sure a Ram Air 4 would be stuggling to get that reading as well.
I would need to go out and start my Nova, but I think the Nova would have to idle @ 1200 to get close to that number as well. You better check it before you leave Marlin. Good Luck!
Peter

[Mr70]

This is a very informative and interesting topic for me & I appreciate all who have participated.
Please continue..