Million dollar camaro....

[Jeff H]

I still can't believe that car was bid over 1 million. Seems to be quite a bit of controversy over the "original" configuration of the car as built by Chevrolet. It's obviously the only first gen Z28 convertible built so that adds to the appeal. But then, I don't see how a hemi Challenger convertible without the original engine is worth 1 million dollars either. A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it so I know it doesn't matter what I think it might be worth. It will still be interesting to see if it sells.

[68l30]

Does anyone know the build date of this car? When was it made for Estes?I can understand the crossram and the other mods,but the cowl hood must be a super early piece.Was it built after the the hood hit production in 69?I'm not bashin the car just an honest question I've always had..


Steve

[68TopStock]

From what I have read about the car, which is public information on other web sites or magazines, the car was built at the end of production, July 1968. I also saw reference that the subframe has been swapped, don't know what else, other than one of the front fenders. I don't think it has the "original" crossram, as it had a four barrel carb earlier in its life, in the early '90's. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I have read and gleened from past references. The subframe swap was on a website a couple of years ago, that detailed the recent restoration.
Not sure I can locate that review, maybe someone that is more web savvy than I can.

None of these changes should detract from this car, however. I think this is the most unique Z28 ever made, and it will sell for whatever that special person is willing to pay to obtain it.

[Jeff H]

Yes, it is a very unique and desireable car. The question seems to be to the claim of it being a factory built crossram, JL8 Z28 conv. From what I have read, the car was built on the assembly line as a conv with the Z28 option and issued a POP showing the Z28 engine, trans and standard rear. The car then had the crossram, fiberglass hood and rear disc added in engineering or some department. Estes used the car for some length of time before Chevrolet took the car back, removed the crossram, hood and rear discs and sold the car in standard configuration to an employee. The car was restored with the crossram, hood and rear discs. That obviously adds value to the car, but claiming it was factory built that way becomes questionable. A very rare and unique car. And if I got anything wrong, please correct me.

[sixtiesmuscle]

How is the engineering department not part of the factory? How does having those special parts installed in the engineering department detract form its authenticity and/or value?

[Jeff H]

If the parts were installed on the assembly line then you could claim the car was built that way. But having those parts added after the car was already fully assembled would mean those parts are not original to the car. I think that's the difference that most people see with this particular car. This car has an interesting history to it and it gets really tough to describe or label the car.

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
The car then had the crossram, fiberglass hood and rear disc added in engineering or some department.

[/ QUOTE ] Since the assembly line wasn't building Z/28 converts and it came off the standard line and went to Engineering for special fitment how could you NOT call it factory built ? It wasn't even sent out to an outside shop to have things installed like a lot of factory drag cars.I have never really heard anyone question whether this was a factory built car.

[Seattle Sam]

Just to revive an old discussion...
This morning on "My Classic Car", Dennis Gage was riding in a 1956 Lincoln Mark II that was built for William Clay Ford. WCF apparently drove this car for a number of years, and in 1968 had it retrofitted by Ford engineers with the Mark III drivetrain, including a 460 engine, C6 trans, and disc brakes.

The reason I mention this is that the AACA gave this car factory original status as the changes to the car were completed "inside the walls of Ford" as Gage put it on the show. Applying this logic would make the Estes car "factory-built".

Interesting to note that the only Camaros AACA recognizes in their Factory High Performance class are COPO and "Yenko" Camaros (see AACA judge's manual Class 36B on page 37). They recognize "all" Chevelle SS396 and SS454 cars, but no Camaro L78 or L89 cars!
-Sam

[firstgenaddict]

My father is an AACA member and he keeps saying to me that they need younger members. That they need the muscle car owners. I have told him over and over that if they would learn how to judge muscle cars then they would get more there. As long as they continue to judge cars with the undercarriage that is all black the same as one that is detailed correctly and continue to knock points off for cars that have the correct overspray on them then they will continue to see their numbers dwindle.
"If you keep doing what have been doing then you will continue to get what you have been getting!"

[NCGuy68]

[ QUOTE ]
My father is an AACA member and he keeps saying to me that they need younger members. That they need the muscle car owners. I have told him over and over that if they would learn how to judge muscle cars then they would get more there. As long as they continue to judge cars with the undercarriage that is all black the same as one that is detailed correctly and continue to knock points off for cars that have the correct overspray on them then they will continue to see their numbers dwindle.
"If you keep doing what have been doing then you will continue to get what you have been getting!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen!!!!

The Hornets Nest chapter of the AACA hosts one of the largest swap meets on the East coast in the form of the 'Auotfair' in Charlotte, NC.

However, they have to recognize 1960-70's muscle cars and learn how to judge them properly. Until then, their membership will contiune to erode. Most folks that attend are not interested in pre-world war II cars.