69 Motion ZLX Camaro

[copo9566aa]

This is one of my favorite Camaro Motion this " Baldwin bandit " [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
I like more the look with this ZL2 hood than the original stinger hood.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
Cool car for May feature cars [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img]

[Belair62]

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In my opinion, Yenko (COPO) Camaros are tame in comparison to the Phase III Motion Cars

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Depends on who is driving !!!!

[COPO PETE]

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In my opinion, Yenko (COPO) Camaros are tame in comparison to the Phase III Motion Cars

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Depends on who is driving !!!!

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Ya.... what he said!
Peter

[SuperCars]

Ha-Ha, I knew that would get me a response. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[whitetop]

Belair62, Hope your are not serious.
You mean a stock Yenko/copo would win over a Phase III car that has '69 era traction bars, wider aftermarket tires, intakes, headers and hotter cams and ignitions?

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

P.S. The only reason you guys have your dog dish skinny bias ply Copo's/Zl-1's etc running so fast in the Pure Stock drags is that every mechanical part on the car has been massaged to death. A stock Zl-1 pulled off the line in '69 would run 1 to 1 1/2 seconds slower than what these cars are running today.... even with Harrell driving.

[Belair62]

I was serious Whitetop ! I said it depends on who is driving.Not to say a Phase III is slower/faster or anything...If you have 2 reasonably similar cars and the one with all the goodies has the crappier driver...you get the point.

[SuperCars]

Bob, you've been watching Charley's dogs too much because you're barking up the wrong tree. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img] Because then you'd be comparing driver against driver and who is the better driver; instead of Supercar against Supercar, to prove which Car is quickest.

Joe C, the "Musclecars" magazine cover photo is taken after the original owner took off the Phase III fiberglas hood. This photo is from the original owner.



His Dad bought and picked it up while he was in Vietnam. Something that I've obtained that the original owner has not seen, is a copy of the Motion work Order listing all the Phase III items put on this car. The full sales price of my car from Baldwin was $6,481.72. Another example of cost is the full sales price on the Yellow LS7 Phase III Camaro at $6,193.90. These prices appear to be $1,500 to $2,000 more than a Yenko or Copo due to the additional High Performance equipment.

Besides the Motion cars I own, I have a considerable amount of paperwork for other Motion cars as well. Also have paperwork for a couple Motion cars that I believe are not known by others, except maybe Joel.

[Chevy454]

I stayed away from this one as long as I could...

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P.S. The only reason you guys have your dog dish skinny bias ply Copo's/Zl-1's etc running so fast in the Pure Stock drags is that every mechanical part on the car has been massaged to death. A stock Zl-1 pulled off the line in '69 would run 1 to 1 1/2 seconds slower than what these cars are running today.... even with Harrell driving.

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The Phase III car should slaughter a stock Yenko/COPO car...Joel had the advantage of learning from every car he built what each combo liked and what did/didn't work, and could transfer that info to whatever car he was building that day. His combos HAD to work (and they did), or else his 11.50 guarantee wouldn't hold water. This guarantee was with an approved driver, so the driver is semi-important.

BUT, assuming that because someone can grab their credit card and a Summit catalog, and give their car the "Ricky Racer" treatment (headers/cam/slicks) doesn't guarantee that particular car will even get out of it's own way...that's as true today as it was back then. I know a V-8 Vega and a V-8 S-10, both with the slick/header/cam treatment, that are still wondering why a certain yellow car with skinny tires out ran them.

And assuming "every mechanical part" on a Pure Stock car "has been massaged to death" sounds like the battle cry of the "header-dependant" crowd. These aren't NHRA super stock cars we're talking about. Massaged? No. Have the owners paid attention to the details (jetting, timing, etc.)? You're DARN RIGHT they have. But unfortunately, a LOT of so called "racers" skip the simple and most basic stuff (timing, jetting, etc.) in favor or the more glamorous things (big cam, hood scoop, headers, etc.). Yet those simpler, less glamorous details are the basis for every powerplant on the face of the earth.

Now, about the times the "stock" cars ran back in the day...ever read any old SS&DI magazines?

[T Billigen]

Back in the "old days" it was the little things that made the difference! My 68 Camaro was a stock 396-375 HP and it ran 12 flat. The only thing I did was put on headers, got a competition valve job, (changed the valve spring retainers), put in some 4:88 gears, duel electric fuel pumps, line lock, and dumped the old Caslers for a set of M&H slicks and had a guy named "Wild man" Bobby Williams tune it, doing all the little things, timing, jetting, etc. Another important thing was traction! back in those days everyone used Lakewoods but we fabricated a set and they worked a lot better than the ones you could buy at the time. When we put the L-88 short block in the car it ran 11.4s at 126 mph.(not bad for 1969!) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/[/img]

[MadMike]

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Joel remembers how to drive. I recently asked him how he managed to pilot his stuff down the strip and he actually remembered. Gave me some tips he did. Also I believe the warranty would be validated by either him or dennis on a sanctioned track with drag slicks. To my knowledge he didn't need to refund any sales due to "lack of performance".