proper yenko rebody? (in new hemmings)

[RichSchmidt]

We have gone down this road many times before.The issue is that it defies legal logic that an automobile can be recreated using all replacement or donor parts and the job would actually cost less then what the car is worth.Basically a car is totalled when it cost more to fix then it is worth,so the state issues a salvage title so that the VIN can't just be swapped to a stolen body since stealing another car would be the only way to fix a totaled car for less then the cost of simply buying another car.

In the collector car world,things get fuzzy.While a $250,000 car can techanically be totally destroyed,the car itself is almost no different then thousands of $10,000 cars that still exist,so it is possible that someone could fix a destroyed $250k car by using a body from a $10k car and swapping the VIN and related parts.This defies logic to the legal world since what we are really saying is that it is the VIN number and not the actually metal of the car that makes it worth so much.When this happens,it just makes sense that these valubale VINs are being kept in working order by being transported around by new body shells.

Forgeries are rampant in the collector world.Coins,Hummels,stamps,guns,war stuff.It is all illegal.The fact that car restorers can forge a valuable car by using the body of a less valuebale car is like saying I can recreate loads of super rare coins by taking coins of a similar vintage and restamping them in my bogus stamping machine.

A rebody is illegal for a different reason then just the federal laws pertaining to VIN numbers,it is illegal because what is touted as a mint condition collectable is actually a counterfiet.That constitute fraud regardless of where the VIN tag came from.

As long as VIN numbers and not the condition of the vehicle determine value the old VIN swithceroo fraud will be a battle.

[talwell]

Quite simply put a rebody is illegal. Rich hit it on the head that it is illegal and the end result is a counterfeit.

I am sure that there must exist some legal method to allow the transfer of a VIN to another body based on the current condition of the original body. Although I am sure this exists, I have never seen anyone provide any legal documentation to validate that the transfer of the vin to the new body they are selling was done correctly. With this being said, I would conclude that all the rebodied cars are illegal and the DMV would must likely have the person who created the car arrested. In NYC we have a section of the police department called Auto Crime. If these guys caught you doing this or caught you with a car that has had the vin swapped I am very sure you would be arrested and the car confiscated. In NYC they do not tolerate any of these questionable swaps.

[bulletpruf]

Fellas -

One point - there are federal laws that state what you can and cannot do - legally - with a VIN. There are state laws as well. So understand that what is legal in one state may not be legal in another, so there is no easy way to say what is legal and what is not.

If we were to agree on a definition of "rebody" (we never will, of course), we would find that it would be legal in some states, and illegal in others.

Scott

[MultiMopars]

[ QUOTE ]
Fellas -

One point - there are federal laws that state what you can and cannot do - legally - with a VIN. There are state laws as well. So understand that what is legal in one state may not be legal in another, so there is no easy way to say what is legal and what is not.

If we were to agree on a definition of "rebody" (we never will, of course), we would find that it would be legal in some states, and illegal in others.

Scott

[/ QUOTE ]



Here is the answer that some of us seek and others want to ignore. Many confuse the LAW with ETHICS and what and who should disclose what and when. Law suites can be filed by people that feel they have been damaged but it is usually something that can not be proven or who did what when.

I have highlighted the areas that specifically show that it is not illegal in the regard we are referrig to in the hobby. HOWEVER , this is the FEDERAL LAW some states have there own restrictions that may have additional requirement for the subject WE are discussing here. The problem is, that unless someone is caught IN THE ACT how can it be proven where and when it took place? So the STATE laws have little teeth.

(1) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).
(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection are—
(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to such vehicle or part;
(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair;
(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law;and
(D) a person who removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, (i) t if that person is the owner of the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by— (i) he owner or his authorized agent; (ii) applicable State or local law; or
(iii) regulations promulgated by the Attorney General to implement the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act.

Here is the link to the Federal law:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/searc...11----000-.html