russo and steel chop job camaro copo

[motion68]

Hey Charley - I'm workin' my fingers to the bone posting all this BS and my post count isn't going anywhere. What up with that?

[Jeff H]

This is a tough situation for any auction house. How do you offer some form of protection for the buyer when we all know there are a bunch of unscrupulous sellers/builders out there? The only possible solution might be to require some form of verification process but that might require an extended amount of time with each car for sale and a team of experts to review the car and document the key items with pictures, etc. That doesn't seem realistic when you look at the number of auctions available to take your car to. Aside from that, maybe there should be some time period after the auction to allow a followup inspection by the auction house(to make sure the buyer didn't do anything to the car) before allowing the full exchange of funds and vehicle. This still doesn't seem very realistic based on the numbers of sellers/buyers/cars. I've never been to an auction so I can't even offer a real point of view but I think this subject needs to be addressed soon. I just can't imagine how you would allow a potential buyer to inspect hidden VIN's before any bidding. And I don't think the problem is GM specific, even the Fords and Mopars with the engine code in the VIN are being messed with. That's my 2 cents if it's even worth that nowadays.

[Steve Shauger]

My feeling has always been that the auction house is not responsible for a sellers' intentionally or unintentionally misrepresenting a car. However it would be a great policy for the auction house to expeditiously remediate this unjustice on the buyers behalf (buyers' feel more comfortable). Next if a punishment could be imposed by the auction house to deter offenders such as banning and prosecution if warranted(Crooks might think twice about using your venue to dump bogus cars). Finally it would be great for buyers and added protection for the auction house if cars that have certified pedigree by NCRS or Bloomington or other judging associations gain some status/recognition. Possibly sellers with cars that have gone through such processes have reduced commissions or some type of incentive.

This is not the end all, but a start to a process that can only be good for the hobby.

Drew I appreciate your open minded approach and willingness to have a real dialog on this issue. You have turned 180 degrees in my book.

[1railman]

Next some will want auction companies to work on world peace!
Look, the auction's job is to bring buyers and sellers together, period. It would be nice if they could certify 400 cars three times a year but that is an impossibility. Buyers beware.

[1railman]

[ QUOTE ]
i recently bought a 1969 silver copo 427 camaro @ russo and steele in fort lauderdale , i took it home a day or two later i got a phone call from a friend and he told me to check the car out real good because he heard or a rumor that the camaro was a re-body , i remove the cowl and found that the car was a re-body , i contacted russo and steele and they treated terrible .

[/ QUOTE ]
I would say you treated yourself terrible by not doing your homework.

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
Buyers beware.

[/ QUOTE ]

When it comes down to that and only that, the auction houses will be out of business as no buyers will be willing to take the risk.

[427king]

[ QUOTE ]
certified pedigree by NCRS or Bloomington or other judging associations gain some status/recognition.

[/ QUOTE ] Steve,Do any of them check hidden vins etc before handing out an award?? I think the rebody problem is more prevalent and easier to pick up in camaros and metal body cars etc than it is in corvettes as there is no metal to weld in,only tag removal and replacement . The frame numbers on corvettes are usually rusted away in many cases,and a frame change doesnt constitute a rebody anyway.

[rich p]

Is their REALLY people here that goes to these auction house and REALLY think by chance that EVERY car is legit there ??
Pleaee !! Where there is money to be made on people their is Thieves !
You want to buy a car ?? You need to talk to the owners of these cars, that are usually standing by their cars. Ask a lot of ????
Dont always go by the Paper on the window is lesson #1
Other then that Buyer Beware !!
Like Drew said: there is always some one in the house like Galen,Special ED, etc.
I see a lot of people fall victim to the EYECANDY...

Just my five cents.. inflation,no longer 2 cents

[PeteLeathersac]

I want to apologize right here and now to Drew for my earlier comments instead of just sliding him a PM..
Drew, I'm sorry for my harsh words previously!.

Seeing you haven't left the table and are sticking w/ this situation and thread also considering possible solutions, it's looking more like you are in fact THE auction house that actually does give a sh!+ afterall!.

Lots of great ideas especially posting the Vins previous to the sale!.
Obviously it'd be tough to act on lone comments but if real evidence is presented or someone w/ known credibility claims a car is a rebody, what do you do then...pull the car from the sale or continue on but as an admitted rebody?.

Sure not all here will agree and you'd be losing commisions on questionable cars, but refusing outright rebody cars from your sales would certainly be a conspicuous difference to other auction houses that didn't do the same?.
And no arguing it's sometimes a blurry line between a rebody and a correctly repaired car that was perhaps rough to start with, but there is a difference in spending fortunes in time and money correctly repairing an original car to that of transfering an identity of some significance to a different vehicle...whether someone's done a good or bad job of hiding their tracks or not..


~ Pete

[ZL1#17]

WAIT A MINUTE..., Why is it so hard for everyone to figure out who is responsible for misrepresenting the cars that are sold at auction?

Before everyone starts screaming, I'm going to post the definition of MISREPRESENT, so others don't twist this into something it's not. Lets not go off into every direction with different scenarios on how cars are not what a buyers expected. LETS STICK WITH MISREPRESENT.


—Synonyms Misrepresent, distort, falsify, belie share the sense of presenting information in a way that does not accord with the truth. Misrepresent usually involves a deliberate intention to deceive, either for profit or advantage: The dealer misrepresented the condition of the car. Distort implies a purposeful twisting or emphasizing of certain statements so as to produce an inaccurate or misleading impresssion: cleverly distorting the facts to create an impression of his own innocence. Falsify suggests a tampering with or alteration of facts, records, or documents, especially with the intent to cheat or deceive: He falsified the birth records to conceal his age.

THE RESPONSIBILITY FALLS ON THE SELLER, NOT THE AUCTION HOUSE AND NOT THE BUYER. If a seller represents a car as a COPO, Yenko, ZL-1, etc., it dam well better be a real car. And PLEASE don't give me that lame excuse that some owners of high end cars don't know if it was "rebodied", or "cloned" previous to them owning it. It seems that the auction house is the way to pass rebodies, clones etc. and to say "buyer, shame on you, why did you not ask questions before you bought that car" is ridiculous.

Look at ebay, they have what's called a dispute console where you can report and resolve problems. When you open up a dispute page it says in bold type "ITEM NOT RECEIVED OR SIGNIFICANTLY NOT AS DESCRIBED PROCESS". Think about it for a minute, why would they place "significantly not as described" with "item not received"? Answer: because there is not much difference in that if the seller sent you something that was not what they advertised, it would be no different then sending you anything at all.

Anyone selling on ebay knows that misrepresenting their goods leads to being kicked off and having their account closed. IT IS THE SELLERS RESPONSIBILITY TO ACCURATELY DESCRIBE THEIR ITEMS FOR SALE.

I believe I read somewhere in this thread that the owner of this rebody was charged the commission, and rightfully so, the auction company did their job. I think that is more than fair for all parties involved. By the way, why is it the auction company responsibility to verify or inspect any vehicle? If the seller had delivered what they advertised, there would be no issue, and I'm sure the buyer would not dispute this fact. Now, if you are lame and don't know if your car was rebodied or is a clone, hire an expert before you take it to auction, therefore saving yourself time and money.

This car was listed as a real COPO with paperwork. I DO NOT SEE ANYTHING THAT SAYS IT WAS A BEBODY, and to say the seller had no clue, is no excuse, and needs to take responsibility.