Cautionary Notes for Auction Bidders

[LT1vette]

Originally Posted by Z282NV

Good question, however, would he still not have the title still in his own name in his own state and would he be obligated to show any auction paperwork at all? I would figure all that person is out is paying both buyers and sellers commissions.

I believe you would have to show ownership AND also sign it over to the auction house??

[Stefano]

Every state has different titling and tax laws. What happens in Florida is not exactly the same as Indiana which is not the same as Arizona... etc.

Today most auctions will not accept a consignment contract from two seperate parties, wherein a title is in one name and the contract is in another unless there is a Power of Attorney and / or a dealer licence or both. Things are much different today than they were in the past.

[turbo69bird]

In Connecticut we have no titles on cars over 20 year old. In state reg is used or a bill of sale with a Ct address from the seller.

[Stefano]

I should have said title and or registration, whatever document a state uses to provide proof of ownership as many states do not have titles for vintage vehicles. Canada uses registrations as well. Alabama is a Bill of sale state etc.

[dykstra]

Interesting thread. Some great insight.

[Wakepowell]

Great thread and lots of good advice.

Keep in mind that all of the advice is also pertinent to private party and dealer purchases/sales. I have been involved with numerous good and bad experiences. The more complicated and expensive lessons have been learned when buying outside of an auction. While the auction fee’s are not pleasant, when a deal goes wrong or is misrepresented, the major auction houses have been helpful in correcting it.

In one of my more recent experiences with a collector car dealership has resulted in $75K in legal fees, the dealer being charged and pleading guilty to Federal Charges and I am still holding a car that has no title and no way to recoup costs. This would have never been an issue via an auction house since they have to have proof of title/ownership prior to running the vehicle through the auction.

[lycan]

This ^^^^ is a VERY good point. Thank you!

Couple random thoughts ...

I never really minded paying the buyers premium. I know there's a cost involved with the venue (plus all associated expenses), advertising, insurance, etc. And there is certainly a value-add to bringing lots of cars together with lots of buyers (by the way, if 10~12% buyers premium sounds excessive ... try buying a COIN at Heritage Auctions, where the buyers premium is now 22%)
Where I have a problem, is not knowing if you're bidding against real buyers with honest bids. Are you buying in a competitive, or manipulated, market?

Anyway, as far as i'm concerned, this thread is un-hijackable. Please feel free to add as many stories you like about deals gone wrong! My only request: offer a take-away, or lesson-learned, that might be useful to others in the future

[TimG]

I've bought from Mecum, but at the Bid Goes On venue. You make an offer and they take it or counteroffer. It's a much more relaxed atmosphere.

[Formula455SD]

Originally Posted by olredalert

----I'm not even sure this is pertinent, but if a seller buys back his own car wouldn't he be responsible for whatever sales tax he owed his own state? There would be auction paperwork reflecting the sale figure....Bill S

Seller would have to pay the buyer and seller premium to the auction. If title is not transferred the sale has technically not been made. If a sale is not made... sales tax would not be collected.

[LT1vette]

Originally Posted by Formula455SD

Seller would have to pay the buyer and seller premium to the auction. If title is not transferred the sale has technically not been made. If a sale is not made... sales tax would not be collected.

Would the seller not have to give the proof of ownership to the auction house to hold?
The house WANTS to be GUARANTEED it receives payment, BOTH sides buyer/seller.