1970 RA IV Judge

[teeg]

I just received my Collector Car magazine. In it, it talks about the soaring values of GTO's in general (in the auctions section). The most recent Hemmings talks about a likely cool off. I know it is a situation that is difficult at best to predict, but I'd like to find an honest assessment of the market and the likely duration of the strong prices.

Has anybody read any informative articles lately? If so, please let me know. I know that many GTO's are popular, but does anybody think a 1970 Ram Air IV Judge with full documentation and the best options could top $100K? What about $200K? Could they follow the e-body hemis?

I am curious about people's insight.

[gtoguru]

You read all kind of stuff about what these cars are selling for. I have read about a couple $100,000 Judges already but dont know if that was the selling price or the asking price. Never seen any concrete price info. I think these RAIV cars will keep escalating in price. Not many made in 69-70. Way less left now. I see nice clone cars fetching 35-40,000. A nice stock 350HP GTO is bringing like $20-30,000 as I look at the national Deals on Wheels. As long as demand exceeds supply the prices will continue to go up. Jim

[yellowjudge]

I've heard & know about a few nice 70 RAIV up there in price. The convert raiv Judges seem to be in a league of their own.Alot of new pontiac colectors I assume have spurred the interest. Whatever the market bears I love the cars
... collector of 69/70 RAIV Birds/ Judges

[Rathbone]

You have to look at where the money is coming from to drive the prices to this level. That will tell you where the prices will go.

I believe the money is coming from baby boomers who are now empty nester's but pre-retirement age. They have cash and time to spend on things they've wanted for a long time but have been putting off. If this is the case, the drive will last until they begin to retire and choose to downsize their living expenses. Of course the very successful of them will escalate their collections at the same time. I think the prices will stay high until they die off. By then I'll be too old to care anymore.

[yellowjudge]

I would say most of them are probably babyboomers. I think most of them were collectors of muscle cars before, & have discovered how rare & "cool" the Pontiacs are. I'm 37, & have been into "only" pontiacs for 20+ yrs. I would not want to try to pay for 4 raiv cars I have @ today's market prices. I believe they will con't to increase in value. i'm glad a flock of collectors are getting into the pontiac mix, it will bring more diversity in.

[Canucklehead]

Problem is is that when these cars are sold there is such deception as to what the selling price was by buyer and seller. The buyer wants to keep it quiet and the seller wants to tell everybody he sold it for more than he did. These higher end collectors keep to themselves and don't like people to know what they have or how much their cars are worth. Can't say as i blame them becouse their always getting bugged by brokers. I think that muscle car values will keep going up as long as the economy stays strong. Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles havent hit there stride yet, i would think they will climb higher yet. I would expect mopars to drop as i don't see why they are so much higher than anything else, but im a chebby man anyways, so what do i know

[Charley Lillard]

Teeg....please fill out your Profile....

[Chris396]

I think we are in a bubble. The question is how long will the bubble last? A year ten years? Prices are getting silly.

[442w30]

I also think we're in a bubble. Two years ago, a friend in FL who had a RAIV GTO told me his car would be worth 40 grand shortly. I told him he was insane - after all, cars went up in price 15 years ago after the stock market crash, then settled to a point of sanity. However, he has proven me wrong . . . and then some.

Analyzing the situation some more, I've arrived at this conclusion (and, of course, it may not hold water as my previous opinion on prices was wrong too!)

Baby Boomers are reaching 60 next year. They are at a point where they are retired or close to retirement. They have a lot of disposable income - a lot more than when they were younger. Maybe now they can afford the car they couldn't in the 1960s due to funds or family. Maybe they want to find the car similar to that they owned 30 years ago. So many of them are doing so.

The stock market has been down for a few years, so people are looking to put their money in other things. This is just like the late 1980s. Once the stock market goes up, I think prices will soften a bit. However, I don't think they'll sink to prices that are sane. That's cuz people still want to relive their youth and they can afford to do so. There are more musclecars now than there were 15 years ago as people have been saving and restoring them. But, despite the slight increase in supply, the demand is higher too. This will keep prices high.

This is why I made my comment earlier. Once the Boomers die, prices will go down to a point of sanity. Demand won't be there because Gen Xers are not into these cars as much, and Gen Yer even less. But it seems to be the case that people don't mind paying insane prices for these cars because they want to enjoy them in the twilight of their lives. Life is not forever, after all.

The only amusing gripe I have for all of this is the relativity of it all. Is a Hemicuda hardtop worth the same amount as a Mercedes Gullwing? I think their values should be related, and you don't need to tell me which is a neater car. Alas, in the end, it all comes down to supply and demand. Take the Mopar and the Merc to Germany and see how their values differ.

[Chris396]

I hope the bubble bursts soon. I am about to turn 32 so I only have 8 more good years left to enjoy life before I fall apart. I'd like to get another car before then.