Top Day 2 Musclecars?

[bulletpruf]

Fellas -

Have been doing some bench racing with a buddy of mine with the possibility that I'll end up building something if it's feasible. Here's the premise -- build the fastest "Day 2" Musclecar, with common bolt on and period correct modifications.

Why? I think we have a pretty good idea from old magazine articles (the ones that were legit) and the cars that are racing Pure Stock Drags what the quickest musclecars were off the showroom floor. Yes, Pure Stock Drags cars are allowed some minor modifications, but nothing outrageous and they have to run on original size and style tires.

Anyway, I love the Pure Stock Drags, but is it really representative of what you would be lining up against in a street race in any given town from 1964-1971? At the very least, you'd see more rubber (and slapper bars) on the back end, maybe some 4.56's, a shift kit in the auto trannies, and upgraded clutches and shifters in the 3 pedal cars. The engine might have a cam, headers, and a better intake, carb, and better ignition.

So, what would the top Day 2 cars be for each given manufacturer? Car would need to come off a production line; nothing built by specialty shops. No machine work done to the engine; just bolt ons (cam/lifter/springs, headers, carb, intake, distributor), shift kit ok for auto trans, better gears are fine, more tire on the back, etc. Parts have to be period correct, including cam grinds. Would have to be a "musclecar" so no 2 seaters (sorry Corvette folks - I love 'em too).

My $.02. Sorry if I hurt any feelings; this is just my SWAG (Stupid Wild-Assed Guess).

Buick - 70 GS Stage 1. Not a real player.

Olds - I'm not an Olds guy, but would have to be the 66-67 W30 according to my buddy. Followed by 70 W31, I think. Also not super competitive.

Pontiac - 68 RA I or RA II Bird. Competitive. Headers should wake it up some, and perhaps a Holley DP, better intake, and more cam to take advantage of it all? It wouldn't be terribly expensive or difficult to replicate one of these if you could find the heads.

Chevy - ZL-1 has to be top dog, right? But I REALLY like the idea of a 66 Deuce sedan with more cam, headers, larger Holley, and better intake.

Ford - I think this is where you would see some real progress. Shock tower cars have been hampered by lousy exhaust manifolds, so the headers should really wake 'em up. I'm thinking either a 66 Fairlane sedan with a 427 MR (can you fit 1 3/4 headers without hacking the shock towers?) or a 68 Mustang coupe with a 428 CJ. Aluminum intakes takes a LOT of weight off the front end of an FE car, too.

Mopar - 67 RO/WO hemi car. Maybe an A12 car as a backup?

AMC - I'm thinking 70 AMX with a 390.

Thoughts? If I were to build one, I think you could piece together a 68 Mustang CJ clone for cheap. 428 stuff isn't crazy expensive, and you can still find unmolested CJ heads and 428 blocks. And Ford made millions of Mustang coupes, too. Either that or the 68 RAII 'Bird.

If you were to line up the top cars from each manufacturer (only one Mopar, only one Ford/Mercury) and race, I'm thinking the ZL1 would come out on top. Followed by the RO/WO hemi. Then the RAI/II Bird. With the Ford next, but I'm not sure if it would be the Fairlane or the Rust...errr....Mustang.

Your thoughts?

Scott

[Postsedan]

'70 Stage1 - Not a player....What? You obviously have never driven a Stage1.

If they were the cars that were listed on the "Top Fifty" fastest Muscle Cars.....how in the world would say that any of the "Top Ten".....would not be players?

Dan

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Postsedan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'70 Stage1 - Not a player....What? You obviously have never driven a Stage1.

If they were the cars that were listed on the &quot;Top Fifty&quot; fastest Muscle Cars.....how in the world would say that any of the &quot;Top Ten&quot;.....would not be players?

Dan </div></div>

Dan -

I'm a big fan of GS Buicks. Have come close to buying a few, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. &quot;Not a player&quot; is probably the wrong phase. I just wouldn't expect one to be in the top three. Having said that, I'm happy to be wrong on this.

Thanks,

Scott

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

You have really peaked my interest:-)

The Pure Stock and FAST classes don't have a spot for the &quot;DAY-2&quot; cars. Would that ever be a fun addition:-) Even the original Stock or Super Stock would be cool. Those of us that missed the drag race days could get a turn.

Ryan

[PxTx]

I love discussions on Day 2 cars. Not really sure where you could set limits or more specifically, how do you set a identify when a threshold is crossed?

My Dad's 67 Nova was a &quot;Day 2 car from Day 1&quot;. It was bought in June 67 and before 1968, it had bigger gears and a roller cam installed. Unfortunately, they did not install a cam button and it ended up pushing out the timing cover! So a deal was worked out with a group in-the-know to update it with a 68 Z28 motor.

Anyways, my point is that if you are trying to recreate what it was like on the streets back-in-the-day you best bet is to define when. Let's say the rules are set to be like it was in the summer of 1971 (though summer of '69 would be my preference).

An older car, would have more time for an evolved mod, such as a 55 Chevy with a W motor- like Bob Falfa, and there were plenty of Tri-Five on the street in the late 1960's.

To define the Day 2 mods to only be rubber, gears, traction bars, inakes cams and headers would probably be unrealistic to the spirit of the day.

I'm more than a little partial, but by 1971 my Dad had his 67 Nova sorted out the best combination for the street with an LT1 motor, fender well headers, 4.88 gears and disarming white wall tires. I've heard stories of it taking down a blown Corvette for a big street upset. My favorite was when a rival for me in the early 1990's was talking up his 5.0 Mustang against my 65 Chevelle and his buddy let it slip that the father of the kid with the 5.0 had a 69 Boss Mustang and warned him not to race my father's Nova for money! Well he might as well told the kid to do it.

Thanks for allowing me to swing off topic a bit, but motor swaps, or stroker cranks and machine were we happening on Day 2.

[WILMASBOYL78]

Of course I'm a Nova guy...but, I would choose the following:

68 or 69 L78 car/plain jane 731 interior/rubber mat/no options...4.56 gears...M22 tranny for the 68, traction bars/Harrell clamps, headers w/proper exhaust, re-curve distributor, Hurst shifter, as much rubber as will fit in the rear...if it was a 69 I would probably choose the TH400 for the base platform with a little better convertor.

There won't be much that will catch it...no need to go inside the motor.

wilma

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WILMASBOYL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course I'm a Nova guy...but, I would choose the following:

68 or 69 L78 car/plain jane 731 interior/rubber mat/no options...4.56 gears...M22 tranny for the 68, traction bars/Harrell clamps, headers w/proper exhaust, re-curve distributor, Hurst shifter, as much rubber as will fit in the rear...if it was a 69 I would probably choose the TH400 for the base platform with a little better convertor.

There won't be much that will catch it...no need to go inside the motor.

wilma </div></div>

That's one of my favorite cars from &quot;back in the day.&quot; Love a car that's optioned with one thing in mind, too -- going fast in a straight line.

Thanks for the input.

Scott

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pxtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love discussions on Day 2 cars. Not really sure where you could set limits or more specifically, how do you set a identify when a threshold is crossed?

My Dad's 67 Nova was a &quot;Day 2 car from Day 1&quot;. It was bought in June 67 and before 1968, it had bigger gears and a roller cam installed. Unfortunately, they did not install a cam button and it ended up pushing out the timing cover! So a deal was worked out with a group in-the-know to update it with a 68 Z28 motor.

Anyways, my point is that if you are trying to recreate what it was like on the streets back-in-the-day you best bet is to define when. Let's say the rules are set to be like it was in the summer of 1971 (though summer of '69 would be my preference).

An older car, would have more time for an evolved mod, such as a 55 Chevy with a W motor- like Bob Falfa, and there were plenty of Tri-Five on the street in the late 1960's.

To define the Day 2 mods to only be rubber, gears, traction bars, inakes cams and headers would probably be unrealistic to the spirit of the day.

I'm more than a little partial, but by 1971 my Dad had his 67 Nova sorted out the best combination for the street with an LT1 motor, fender well headers, 4.88 gears and disarming white wall tires. I've heard stories of it taking down a blown Corvette for a big street upset. My favorite was when a rival for me in the early 1990's was talking up his 5.0 Mustang against my 65 Chevelle and his buddy let it slip that the father of the kid with the 5.0 had a 69 Boss Mustang and warned him not to race my father's Nova for money! Well he might as well told the kid to do it.

Thanks for allowing me to swing off topic a bit, but motor swaps, or stroker cranks and machine were we happening on Day 2.
</div></div>

Love the Nova! Cool story, too.

As for Day 2, I realize all of these mods (engine swaps, etc) were happening as soon as Day 2, but the conversation I'm interested in is what were the quickest street cars on Day 2, given some reasonable (and common) modifications and a realistic budget.

If you could keep it simple and relatively inexpensive, I think it would be a great racing class to complement Pure Stock Drags and FAST.

Thanks for the input.

Scott

[old5.0]

Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford.

[bulletpruf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>

Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy.

Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars.