Gibb 68 COPO Nova

[copo-2]

I moved this so the 68 Gibb COPO Nova has a thread dedicated to all things related to these unique and rare 68 COPO Nova. I want to thank Ray Morrison for his research and dedication to these cars and sharing his information these cars and being a great caretaker and historian.

Originally Posted by William

Since 1989 when Fred Gibb gave Bill Porterfield much of the original paperwork from his dealership, I have been pestering him about what would happen to the docs when he tipped over [he’s 10 years older than I]. Told him his daughter would probably heave it into a dumpster. Despite promises and assurances I heard over 34 years, nothing came of it.

Backing up a bit, late 2019 out of the blue I heard from an individual that had privately acquired a Gibb ZL-1. Related the story about the dealership paperwork and referred him to Porterfield for the paperwork on his ZL-1. They hit it off and voilà, he recently acquired all of it from Porterfield. He invited me to visit for unfettered access; free to copy anything I want.

So that’s where I was this week. 10 hours was just enough time to buzz through the literally hundreds of folders in a dozen cartons; everything from letters from John De Lorean to engineering drawings of the ZL-2 hood pad [too big to copy]. Still has about 25 original ZL-1 shipper’s copies and a few PDIs with the POP imprint. Some info on the ’69 ZL-1 show car; a folder with several original decals for it. Finally, have complete copies of the ZL-1 Engine Assembly Manual. There are two versions, one noted COPO 9567 [show car]. I flew with a carry-on only, limited in how much I could bring back.

Also, docs on the 50 ’68 COPO Novas, the first TH400/L78 cars Chevy built. No shippers on those, but a number of PDIs with POP imprint. For some reason, a number of docs concerning the later big bore Can-Am 430” block that most racers switched to for the better bore/stroke ratio.

The info did not include every ZL-1 Camaro or L78/auto Nova the dealership acquired.

This was just a beginning. A more thorough review is planned for a later date. The desire is to eventually reunite docs bearing a VIN with the vehicles they belong to. If you have a Gibb car w/o documentation, pm me here.

I am the original owner of #37 of the Gibb COPO Nova's which originally was prepared by Dick Harrell. I had no idea my car was anything more than a Dick Harrell prepared 427-450 68 Nova with an experimental automatic? The article I read in the November 1968 issue was about the hot new 396-427 Nova available through authorized Chevrolet dealers. This article is the reason I came to ownership of one of these cars. This article did not disclose anything about Fred Gibb & his original purchase of the 50 copo's. Only in 1989, was I later to find out the rest of the history from Fred after I had a bug put into my ear that more background of this car might be worth checking? Should you Not have the engine code on the Gibb Novas or transmission codes, they are E3 that may be hard to find in any Chevrolet manual and the experimental 400 coded as CY. This special engine code I have wondered if that might have been arrived at because of the experimental 3 speed automatic? The E3 engine code brought up a lot of questions, but in talking with Fred before his passing, he told me all 50 COPO 9738 Nova's had that code. Ray

[William]

Looks like all were E3

[copo-2]

Originally Posted by William

Looks like all were E3

William,
Your posting of the 1968 Chevrolet new vehicle inspection & adjustment schedule form is quite interesting. I first noticed just a couple differences in that of the #37 car. Build dates & a miner difference of having a 3 in the transmission code? By chance, You wouldn't have a shot of the green tag from this car? From the VIN number of posted schedule, according to my documents this would be from #49 of the 50? Helen Gibb wound up with the #50 car located in Gladstone, MO. The last 20 of this lot were paint coded EE being Fathom Blue. The engine code on #37 shows TO621E3.The transmission code on this car, however shows 68C100? The rear axle code shows BV0619G. The difference in the transmission code having the 68C103 I don't understand the being a difference? Long ago, research was done the found novas with this documentation, & the findings were that this 68C100 was the first part of the transmission serial number? I don't remember specially since a lot of the information on others was misplaced, car #37 had the lowest serial number of CY 1005 while the highest found was CY 1041. This seems to say that these Gibb cars transmissions had serial numbers ranging from CY 1001 To Cy 1050? William, this is just my theory, but have no proof? We know for sure, they were the first aromatics to be harnessed to a high performance, solid lifter engines in the first 2 weeks of July 1968. Documents from NHRA files, showing all 50 were built and delivered to Gibb Chevrolet by July 15.

William, I realize this thread was started mostly about the ZL-1's and not trying to high jack that information, but there is quite a bit of information about the COPO Nova's that need addressing for public interests that we can discuss about these once called "Mystery Nova's? Ray

[William]

What I think happened is the transmission plant initially muffed the date coding.

TH400 transmissions were date coded with the model year [68], application [C]. Numbering began at the chronological day of the calendar year [1/1/1967] the MY launch occurred. The numbering continued to increment as the MY crossed into the next calendar year; did not reset.

An early production TH400 trans for a 1968 Camaro would be 68C220, built August 8, 1967. A late production trans would be 68C543, built June 26, 1968.

The 396/TH400 Nova was a Spring 1968 launch. When the plant started building the new Nova TH400 transmissions, they incorrectly started the date code sequence as of January 1, 1968, not 1967. Common dates for the Gibb L78 Novas are 68C100 [April 9, 1968] 68C101, 68C102, 68C103, 68C104. Someone noticed and later cars had transmissions coded 68C534 [June 17, 1968].

Common dates for TH400 ZL-1 Camaros are 69X361, 69X362, 69X395, 69X407.

Don’t know about 1968 but for ’69, each transmission had a serial number with the sequence specific to the application, starting at 1000. Latest ’69 CX TH400 is CX-69-4285. A CC trans built at the same time is CC-69-25788.

Just for the record, based on POP data our db shows one L78 and one L72 Camaro built with CC transmissions. Some very early 69 L78s built at Van Nuys had CY transmissions.

I do have ZL-1s on the brain but it’s a Gibb Chevrolet thread. The L78/auto Novas are an important part of the story. Post whatever you wish!

[copo-2]

Thanks for posting the information on the vehicle inspection sheets. It seems to get more interesting to compare the information that each contain? These posted sheets are a little different from that of mine and if you look at the one you posted on the #49 car, it too is a little different? I believe the 3 last posted are from cars #20, #22, & #24 if my records are correct? Back to the #49 Fathom Blue, the document showed C103 at the bottom. Now the next to last of these cars would have been built the 2nd week of July 1968? #37 was also built the 2nd week of July 1968? In the latest post of the documents, they were from a tripoli turquoise car #20, & 2 matador red cars #22 &#24? These would have been built the 1st week of July 1968? Notice that at the bottom of the inspection sheets of the first week cars and the 2nd week car? The #37 car has a 534 Julian date code on the Green Tag in pretty large numbers up by the rivet, yet has no reference of the 534 found on the inspection sheet? When I first saw the C103 on the blue car, after thinking on this awhile was wondering if it would be possible that the 103 could be lacking another digit as 103? for the serial number? Maybe this could be the reason they were known as Mystery Novas?

William, thanks for passing on the information you have on the Gibb cars & their history. I'm sure there is a lot yet to be learned about these Gibb cars, but comparing information is the one way to learn more? Too, I presume you have secured the documents prepared by Fred Gibb titled "To Whom It May Concern" on the Nova's? Just wondering if those owning the ZL-1's may have been presented with these, also?

[Kurt S]

Originally Posted by William

What I think happened is the transmission plant initially muffed the date coding.
TH400 transmissions were date coded with the model year [68], application [C].
The 396/TH400 Nova was a Spring 1968 launch. When the plant started building the new Nova TH400 transmissions, they incorrectly started the date code sequence as of January 1, 1968, not 1967. Common dates for the Gibb L78 Novas are 68C100 [April 9, 1968] 68C101, 68C102, 68C103, 68C104. Someone noticed and later cars had transmissions coded 68C534 [June 17, 1968].

It's the assembly plant that messed it up, not the trans plant. The Gibb TH400 trans I have seen are stamped correctly, but the POP is in error.

TH400 Code Format: yyaddd
yy = last two digits of the model year
a = transmission application
C = L35 engine
E = L34 engine
X = L78/L72/ZL1 engine
ddd = Julian day of model year
68C493 = Day 127 or May 7, 1968 for L35 Nova / Camaro

SERIAL NUMBER

Ca-69-nnnn e.g. CX-69-3470

where:
C = Chevrolet
X = L78/L72/ZL1 engine
69 = model year
nnnn = 4-digit production sequence number

The new trans were coded 68Y534 with serial # CY-68-10xx, etc.
But what Willow Run put on the POP was the CC trans, which was the L35 trans, ignoring the CY. And despite the 534 day on the trans, they put 103 as the date. So 68C103 on the POP instead of 68Y534. Sometimes the plant used the correct day, but the POP still showed the wrong trans model. All of those POP above should be 68Y5xx.
I can't explain. It wouldn't be for tracking purposes, that was implicit with the new trans code. I noticed this before, but didn't have enough data to see a pattern. Thanks Bill!

Ray - does your car / #37 have the original trans tag?

[copo-2]

I have an old polaroid picture that I looked back upon when taken while very new. In searching for any evidence of Fred Gibb's association, I thought it might have had the window sticker that might have still been there? I didn't find any nor can I remember one being there when driving it away from DHPC. I do remember hauling the air pump home in the trunk pulled because of the optional headers. Still nothing pointing toward Fred Gibb? At this point no reason to really look for anything other that what was already known? While putting the car back together, the need to freshen the original motor became an issue. Knowing that our engine builder was still in the former DHPC building doing competition work as he had done for DH before, it was taken back for him to refresh. Speaking with him and exchanging some DH documents, He mentioned that I should look into the car that the engine came from, that additional interesting information about documenting of the Nova was there to be found? Curiosity of what he had mentioned was beyond my understanding? The question was, where to start the search? He would not comment any further but his comment was the start for my looking for any information I could find?

Kurt S In answer to your question in the above thread, yes I do have the original tag and quite a bit of other transmission documentation that I would like to post later together. Thanks for the interest!

[copo-2]

Thanks for the reply about the individual Nova & ZL-1 documents. Your response kinda clears up something I was wondering about? I do have one that goes into detail about the #37 Nova down to the key numbers. Other things within this document addresses the 90 day warranty, the benchmark about being the first to inherit an automatic mated to a high horsepower, high rpm solid lifter engine, among other things & signed by Fred.

Back to the inspection schedule sheets, the differences I noticed at the bottom, just thinking these inspections may have been done by different individuals? The one I have was signed by Doyle Alston? If different people were responsible, could this affect what the difference might have on the way they were made up? If you don't care, take a look sometime at who signed off on these to see if they had the same signature?
Ray

[William]

Don't have them. Just got pics of the POP data.

[copo-2]

William,
I would like to apologize for the lack of understanding pictures you posted were of the POP’s and not the inspection sheets of those. I will attempt to send my copy to this thread? I have been trying to upload some material of mine that came with the car as new. Not computer knowledgeable, but hopefully this will attach?