School me on '61 409s and L89 Novas, please!

[442w30]

This is a two-part question, although unrelated:

1) All 1961 409 cars I've seen have been Impalas (presumably SSs). I know the SS was a package that can easily be faked. But the 409 was available in other lines, so it's possible to have a Bel Air 2-door sedan with the 409, right? Is there any way to tell its pedigree from the body or it requires paperwork as well?

2) This weekend, I saw the black 1970 L89 Nova at the Greenwich Concours d'Elegance. I know there's been some controversy regarding this car, so can someone make an objective attempt to tell me what the deal is? Is it an issue of the owner using deductive reasoning to arrive at a conclusion that it's an L89 car, while there is no paperwork to prove it, not to mention that the fact that it's a 1970 (versus 1969) car makes it all the less likely that it's an L89 car? I'd like to hear an attempt at impartiality regarding this car . . . and my apologies if it may appear like a rehash from a previous thread.

Thanks, Chevy folks!

[Xplantdad]

As far as the Nova POP was shown in the mags not too long ago

[ORIGLS6]

Verne can set us straight on the '61 09s but I thought they were only available with the SS option..... and only as a single 4 bbl version (340 HP?)

A '61 '09 Biscayne would be x10!

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]


A '61 '09 Biscayne would be x10!

[/ QUOTE ]

You know it!!!


A '61 Biscayne 9'er has been near the top if my long wanted list for too long...right behind a W-powered '61 Canadian Poncho Strato Chief!.

I have an old pic somewhere I had hanging on my wall for years of Dyno Don or da' Grump's original '61 Chevy Batwing that was supposed to be a factory car and have always understood a few of roughly 150 09's built in '61 were Post cars..


~ Pete

[Hylton]

Why didn't Chevy keep going with the 409? Wasn't the engine reliable? Surprised they would push the 396 vs. the 409.

[Verne_Frantz]

A lot of magazine articles have stated the '61 '09s were all in the Super Sports, so many people believe that. The SS option didn't appear until Feb. but the first '09s showed up in Dec.(1960). They could be ordered in any full-sized body style.
It's probably near-impossible to tell if a restored '61 was originally an '09 without paperwork - unless some mistakes were made. And there aren't many clues on an un-restored body either.
As far as the engine itself, another UN-proven rumor is that some 2x4 cars were built near the end of production. Several of the top name racers back then showed up in July with 2x4s and the big heads, but they were put into OS/S (Optional SuperStock), which was the predecessor of FX. Those parts were supplied over the counter. All production '61 409s seem to have had a single AFB and were rated 360hp.
Hope this helps.

Verne

[Verne_Frantz]

Hylton,
One thing comes to mind: The engines were considerably "over-square", with a 4 5/16" bore. Those huge pistons weighed in at just under 2lbs ea. so the engine was rpm limited. It never did that well in NASCAR with sustained high rpm use, or on the drag strip in '64.
The MK-II (mystery motor) design showed it's tremendous potential in '63, and that engine morphed into the MK-IV.

(I still like the '09s though )

Verne

[ORIGLS6]

You never let us down!

[COPO 70 RS/Z28]

Im I correct in noting the the 61 ss production was somewhere in the range of 500 or so

[442w30]

Yeah, the number is somewhere between 400 and 500 - I kinda recall 458 from my memory.

So, if the Nova has the POP, why has the car been so controversial?