Single vs. Double; Original vs. CE Block

[rubbinisracing]

In my search to buy a copo camaro and/or chevelle a few decisions need to be made. I would like you guys & gals to weigh in on a few subjects for me so I can properly decide.

The reason for your opinion will be most helpful if you would care to share that as well.

Collectibility: Double vs. Single (don't confuse this with value) Looking for known numbers of each built and the wide spread desirabilty to collectors.

Dollar deduction for the following flaws:

Documentation-No build sheet, POP or Original Window Sticker but all stamps, castings and date are correct.

CE Block-Car currently has CE block with repair order for replacement and Buildsheet or other docs. showing car was originally a copo.

CE Block-no repair order for warranty replacement, could have come from another car or model.

Unstamped Block-Car has unstamped block for whatever reason but it is 512 and docs support that it is a copo.

Trans doesn,t match-

So on and so on!

Thanks in advance!

[ANDY M]

Howard, no offense, but I don't think anyone can answer this. Way too many variables.
Buy what you like, because you like it.
Andy

[rubbinisracing]

All these great minds and nothing to say?

Maybe the way the questions were posed was the problem! I asked for your opinions using dollar amounts to quantify your response and keep away from other non specific adjectives.

I know this is a touchy subject because there's a lot of copo owners on this site. So if you respond, keep that in mind.

I'll give you my opinion from where I'm standing TODAY!

Hope you give me yours, or I'll be forced to answer my own post. Nothing learned there!

I don't know what the top dollar I'd pay for the car is. With that said here it goes.

To me the Yenko name is a premium and is much better known than any other Dealer or even "copo". The casual car guy knows its special, he may not know what for, but he is aware it's unique. So around a 50K premium is what I'd pay for Yenko prep and documentation for otherwise 2 equal cars.

CE block with warranty documentation- 40-60K deduction. This could be even greater depending on the number of cars with original block.

CE block with no documentation- 100K deduction. Could be from any car or model

Bare Stamp pad but correct casting#- This is tough. What you got here is a car that was once a copo and that's it IMO. I'd rather have a documented SS/RS L78 car. 150K+ deduction.

Automatic Transmission- Remenber this is my opinion and I wouldn't buy an A/T copo car. 50K deduction. You may see it differently.

Correct Trans but missing correct VIN-25K deduction

Rear End type correct but date code wrong - 10-15K deduction

I know there's a thousand combinations and there are also pluses for desireable options and colors. I just used the assumption that all other components were correct. This is simialr to the way the N.A.D.A. book does it.

Now I've been brave and walked to the top of the hill for all to shoot at. Now lets hear from you!

That wasn't so hard. Maybe its because I don't even own a copo!

[Belair62]

You are dealing with a low production handful of cars...I don't think you can place deductions on anything...if the one that comes up for sale is not what you want at the price offered don't buy it..wait for the next one.

[GTO_DON]

THANKS BOB

[csx289]

I'd have to agree - some cars just "are what they are", and you take them warts and all. No secret formula or Kelley Blue Book deduction chart. Case in point - original Comp Cobras , like CSX2128 that sold at Russo and Steele for $2 mil and change. Rebodied, not original motor or trans, BUT unquestionably THE car and good paperwork. Using a formula would tell you the car would be worth $4 mil if it had all original panels and drive train? Nah, it would still be $2 mil! Maybe a little more, BUT, you get the point.

IMHO, sometimes it seems as if we can't see the forest because of the trees these days. Give me a real car, with real paperwork and a great history any day over a "iffy" car with light paper and a "numbers matching" motor. I've bought a lot of great cars that the owner flat out told me were NOM , and I liked the cars so much it just didn't bother me.

What bothers me are "stampers", "restoration motors", "warranty blocks" or whatever the dishonest people are calling them these days. Again, it "is what it is" - I will take a real car that hurt its motor and don't see it as a 50% deduct. Heck, Hemi and RAIV cars have always been about 10% less when they are NOM, correct? Most likely because we all know the damn things didn't hold together if they were driven like they were supposed to be! LOL

Just my humble opinion.

Colin

[jfkheat]

I don't own a COPO and probably never will but I think your deductions are a bit high. I'm going to base the following on a price of $250K for a nice original drivetrain Yenko. In theory, if you found a real COPO from Joe Blow Chevy (-50K) with a decked block (-150K), wrong date auto trans (-75K) and wrong rearend (-10K), you would expect the seller to pay you about $30K to $40K to take the car. You may want to study the Yenko and Copo market before you buy a car. Just my opinion.
James

[mockingbird812]

It is human nature to try and place a process on something like this. Most of industry is very process oriented these days. Some things are process-able and some aren't. This wld be a tuff one - but if it weren't tuff it wouldn't be worth doing. There are indeed a ton of variables some of which are intangibles. But, I laud you for attempting it. Could be fun, and if nothing else gives you a reference point to perhaps compare one car to another whether you are buying or selling or just determining value. One thing I'll suggest is to not place a discrete $dollare$ figure for deductions which will be outdated the week after next, but use %percentages%.

That said, one of my favorite value-added things that I look for in a car is the story it tells. All of these cars have a story, some will never be known some are waiting to be unearthed. I like the thrill of the hunt to go back as far as I can on my car and find something the previous fellow didn't. It can be anything from the sexy, hi profile i.e owned by a celebrity or famous drag racer, to the regular joe stuff, but typical of how these beasts were used in the day.

Good luck!

Sam

[Belair62]

I think it would be easier to write down what you want ..engine,docs,trans,color,etc....and when that one comes up for sale at whatever price...decide if you are comfortable with that price...negotiate and get it.

[Jeff H]

It sounds like you are questioning whether you want an all original, documented COPO vs one that isn't. It also depends on your financial situation. If I wanted a COPO car for a collection, it would have to be a documented, numbers matching car. The only questions would be color, transmission and extra options. From there it gets tough between a documented car with non original engine or trans vs a supposed numbers matching car with no documents. There is so much restamping and fake documents going around now that I would have to take it slowly to make sure everything looks legit. I wouldn't even want to begin to put prices and deduction on certain combinations since that is a personal thing. As for the transmission, I think you'll be very surprised how a TH400 in a COPO runs so that wouldn't be a value deduction at all to me. Sleeper = 427, dog dish hubcaps, auto on the column, no fancy options.