65 not 64 GTO convertible

[kenham]

I don't know if it makes a difference but the car is a 65 not 64. Thanks for the info so far. He has a PHS certificate. I'll check it out tomorrow.
Ken

[JoeG]

GTO ad-------- [image]httphttps://www.yenko.net/attachments/84977-gto.jpg://[/image]

[Belair62]

I think a 65 has more value due to it's popularity...how about it Pontiac people....

[Bandit]

I think the 65's are a bit more popular than the 64's.
Just my opinion. I have not had a 64 yet. Did I say yet?

[StealthBird]

The 65's DO have a greater value than the 64's. Strange but true. You would think the car that started it all would be more valuable than the second year of production, but there are reasons why 65's are more valued than 64's.

First and foremost, people consider the styling of the 65 GTO to be the best of the breed. Styling is subjective, but Pontiac fans place the 65 GTO (or 70 GTO) as their favorite.

Secondly, over the decades, the 64 GTO suffered from a stigma it couldn't shake. No fault of the GTO, it was the evolution of the Pontiac V8. In 1965, Pontiac redesigned their blocks, heads, intakes, etc. The new design of the 389 cube engine (and 421) would stay in production in one form or another from 1965 to 1979, taking on the form of a 400, 428, and 455 in later years. That left pre-1965 cars (and especially the 64 GTO) at a huge disadvantage over the years, because you could not swap engine parts with the 65-79 Pontiac V8's. As more aftermarket speed parts were developed in the 70's, 80's, and 90's, the manufacturers naturally focused on the millions of Pontiac V8's (with interchangeable parts) that were built between 1965 and 1979. The 64 GTO was sort of the orphan GTO, and while respected, they were not easily modified. Many street racers swapped in a 1965 or later Pontiac engine as the decades rolled by.


Third, the whole GTO "Tiger" campaign really took off in 1965. The tiger theme hit magazines, TV, and dragstrips all over the country. With sales more than doubling for 1965, and remaining high in 1966 and 1967, many people remember the "boxy" GTO's with stacked headlights. The 64 GTO didn't appear to fit in with what many casual observers envision an old GTO to look like. The same problem occurred in 1973 and 1974.

Finally, many hard core Pontiac fans believe that the 65 GTO was the last year the Goat was truly king of the hill. They made faster GTO's as the years went by, but in 1965, the GTO did not have an equal. Chevrolet's knee-jerk reaction to the GTO came in the form of the extremely limited 1965 Z-16 Chevelle, Oldsmobile wouldn't have a 1/4 mile threat until their 1966 W-30 arrived, Buick was out of the running until their Stage 1's came along years later, and Chrysler introduced the street Hemi in 1966. The whole image, power, and looks of the 65 GTO hit a nerve with American performance enthusiasts. By 1967, there were a dozen cars as quick (or quicker) than the 67 GTO, some even in Pontiac's own fleet (the Firebird).

So those are the reasons I believe the 65 GTO has always held a higher value than the rarer 64 GTO.

Now back to your regularily scheduled program.

[Bandit]

Well said.

[JoeG]

"Who was that Masked Man"-------------'65 GTO

[supergonzo]

I think your are right Mike. 65's are faster and very cool.
Although a 64 convertible, tripower can bring big dollars as well.

Back then the 66' was the most popular model ever made for GTO's and I think one of the best looking. Possibly only second to 69's.

I am not sure about 70's comment though. 69 GTO's and Judges bring much higher dollars then 70's. Most people consider 70's to look a little too much like Firebirds, at least thats the complaint I always hear. I personally like em' all
--------------------------------
As far as performance goes, every body who is NOT into Pontiacs...thinks that all the GTO's just came with 1 engine. They think its a 389. This is partially due to the HUGE success that Pontiac had branding the image of tripower and having a top 4 song that sold over 2 million copies,with the lines "3 deuces and a 4 speed" didn't hurt either.

These same people assume that the later years of muscle cars,1967+ could now defeat the GTO. And this would be true, except for 2 things. The GTO engines also evolved just like everybody elses and if you wanted to you could order a GTO that had all the best factory options and gear ratio's and you could be pretty competitive. BUT most people didn't. However most people didn't with the other brands either. Consider this:

Plymouth sold 1571 "street hemi's" in 1966. Dodge sold even less. Streetable...very loose usage of the term here, if Mopar didn't purposely name it the "street hemi" nobody would have assumed it was.
Meanwhile Pontiac SOLD 96,000 ++ GTO's ... 33,000 with tripower!!

[JoeG]

Your right the GTO was the car to beat in 64/65--after that the playing field started to even up,--but a friend of mine bought a '67 400 HO RAM AIR and this engine was really a nice option---his was the only 400 HO RAM AIR I had hear of around Mitchell's(local drive-in back then) and he surprised a lot of cars----

[StealthBird]

supergonzo, great post! However, I have to disagree on the worth of 69 Judges over 70 Judges. The 70 Judges always seem to pull more money than the 69's, espeically within the Pontiac collector world. Both years are expensive as hell, but Pontiac people have frequently voted the 1970 GTO as the second most attractive year, followed (usually) by the 66/67 models. Personally, I love both the 69 and 70 Judge models, but the 70 Judges seemed to peak in that over-the-top styling year for Musclecars. The flat rear wing, reflective side stripes, front spoiler, and some great looking exhaust tips.

On the front end styling of the 70 GTO, I've always heard the opposite! Most people do not care for the 69 GTO grille. The 68's were blacked out, the 69's were silver/gray (black on Judges) and used a horizontal bar. The 70's GTO's had the deep set, blacked out grilles and "frenched in" headlights. Many Pontiac people feel the 1970 GTO front end styling was the most beautiful of the bunch, and the Endura nose bumperless look was even more stunning when each headlight sat in their own "pocket", like a 70 Chevelle SS.