1969 427 camaro copo?????

[ronnieredline]

hello
i am impressed with this board, so much that i joined it and would like to discuss a few things.
first off, im impressed with alot of the knowledge from alot of the members here.
second everyone is so kind i thought i would join.
i havent ever joined something like this because i dont want people coming to my door so to speak.
this is why:
when i was 18 or so, i was a mustang freak, i had a neighbor bring his car to me to fix, he must have thought i was a good mechanic because i did a complete resto of a 67 mustang on my parents driveway, it was about 300 ft long, yes the car was from the end of the driveway to the front with parts. i replaced the floors and all the sheetmetal etc...
anyway, he needed the brakes fixed on his car, when he called he ask me to come and get it, the keys are in it he said. i went to go get it a few miles away, the brakes felt spungy so i tried it slowly to go home, the brakes werent working very good but i made it.
it had the original 427 in it, it had the air cleaner and all. it looked like it was messed with a litle bit to me.
i replaced the masted cylinder and the brakes worked but i had to press hard, then i heard a hissing sound from under the dash, the old master cylinder leaked from the rear so bad it damaged the rubber diaphram in the booster. i fixed it, and gave him the old parts, he said i dont want them you keepem. i dont know why but i took them back home.
i threw them in the corner of my dirt floor garage.

well about 6 months went by, and he called me again, he asked if i wanted to buy this car? why would i want it it i asked?
he said he needed the money and thought i had it, well i went and got it and brought it home, my younger sister was visiting our farm and i took her a ride, man did she love it, she said
"you gotta buy this car" the woman will love it, well i bought it and guess what? it had a 350 2 barrel in it???? i went to talk to him about the bigger motor and he said, oh yeah his dad made him take it out and i could go talk to the other guy who worked on it and get the motor and stuff that was in the car, so i did, he gave me so much stuff it didnt fit in the trunk, see i never looked under the hood to even see if it had the bigger motor, so i went and got it. he gave me the console, the air cleaner, wiring to the console, the carpet was soaked with oil, so they took it out. there was so much stuff i had to put some of it in the back seat. anyway the rest is history as they say.
i then parked it in the barn for about 2 yrs. threw the bigger motor which was all dissasembled, in with the chickens in the chicken coop, and left it, they laid egggs in the lifter valley for yrs.
now this is when i was about 18 i didnt care for chevys, but the water pump went out on it and i was told to fix it, because it was leaking on the barns wood floor and dad wouldnt have it, so after i pulled 4 fan bolts and 4 water pump bolts, i was like hey this is to easy?? compared to all the different ford bolts to take out, i then started to like the car, dad had a vette stingray in the garage and i was told, you should drive that car not the ford?
so i did, i took it up town and man did the heads turn! ! !
this car had 38000 miles on it, but the seats were loose, the back seat wasnt installed right, there were wires hanging down in the middle by the heater, i didnt even know what for??
yrs later i figured out what the accelerator hole was for, it went to a switch to open the hood flap, it is factory cowl induction and i thought the relay was for air conditioning, but the car doesnt have A/C, who cared at the time.
he painted the car before i worked on it and put the Z stripes on it and it does look nice i must say, to this day it has 46000 miles on it, the VIN is stamped on the trans, its a little messed up and not to straight but its there, and the block is very rusty but it has the VIN from the car on it as well, it is a MN stamp on the block pad and i think it says 1020 and the vin is by the oil filter, the trans is a 5661 M21, and was so messed up my friend had to hold it in 4th to get home, it just jumped out of gear when you stepped on the gas.
so i threw that in the barn and let it be, i had to get this car running for my wedding, i am now almost 45 and i had to find a trans because the one i had in it broke going to my friends funeral, so i went to the barn i own now, which is a different one than when i was a kid, but i kept alot of muncies, this is one i had left and never tore up because i never used it. i think all the stampings are real and un touched because i never even knew about that kind of info when i was a kid, so i discovered the trans vin when i bead blasted the trans and ordered gears for it, the trans had a B on it for a M21 but i counted the teeth and it was a M20, so i rebuilt it to M21 specs and got it going for the wedding, first time married by the way, no kids either.
now comes the rear diff, this is a 10E car X11 124379N factory big block all the way no if's or butts about it, it stands so tall in the front with a small block that it took shackles in the rear to level the car out, never ever had the heater core out of it or the heater box ,to this day. i checked the vin under the cowl and pulled the kick panels which were never out of the car and saw some numbers so i investigated, they are upside down but they match as well.
from my vin number this car was made during the last 5-9 days of the norwood plant before making the 70 camaro's. its so late that some of the stuff is from the 70 cars? is this the last one made??
anyway, thers is so much history i have on this car, not paper work, but from what ive done to it as a kid and so on, i did put a new windshield in it and found the protecto plate stuffed under the dash when we took out the dash pad, which is broken up under neath so we re-installed the dash with a chrome strip to hold down the front of the dash from curling up i thought it was a credit card, i gave it to the guy who helped me with the windshield and did some paint touch up and undercoated the car for me, he kept it, i called him and he still has it, i have yet to go get it, but he has it and said he would send it to me. now ive done some investigating on the rear diff and it has a BE 1030G2 on it with a E under all of the numbers,which means a oct 30 assembly date BUT the cast date is F239 which makes no sense to me at all??? i cant make up my mind if its an 8 or a 9 you look at it one way and its a 9 or the other way and it might be an 8 but the rear diff has never been out of the car and i even tore out the factory 4:11's, the pinion nut came loose when i stopped at a stop sign and it locked up, i was like what?? i didnt keep the gears but dad showed me what to look for and turn the driveshaft and the tires and all, way before hand, then when i tore it out, i counted the teeth on the ring gear and on the pinion and did the math and it really was a 4:10 ratio, i put new gears in, but the old posi unit was scarred up a little so i got a new one, thing is i still have it to, it has a FH 425 J and 52 and 425 hand stamped on it on the part that the bolts go through to hold the ring gear to it. its also casted with a EDB 30174, the casting in the rear diff is 3894860, ive asked a guy about it and he says its should be something else?? but its a june diff and they changed to what he said after sept or so, so i think it should be the right casting for the F239 date thats cast into it?
why would a BE1030G2 rear diff have a F239 cast date???
im going to have a certification done on it, i talked to a guy named doug something and he said congrats its a copo, but whats with the cast dates? he also said "if you ever want to sell it ask me first ok?" thing is, do i really need it certified? its alot of money to do it, i have everything to it??
can anyone shed light on this, i could go on forever about the history of this car with me, so dad told me to start to write it down, i started with what i told on here, but alot more details, its 6 pages long and counting!!
please let me know about this car because i have the original alt 1100837,the holley carb 4346, pulleys,water pump,master cyl and booster, hold off valve, distributor,air cleaner heads 291, coil im not to sure about, 3163 intake but dates are to hard to read?? anyway the guy i bought it off of wont tell me anything else because he wanted to buy it back about 6 months after i got it and i said no, i wont sell it, its in the barn and im going to keep it, so the only thing he told me when i bought it was that he had it a about 8 months and he got it from a guy who bought it from glockner chevrolet, in portsmouth, thats about and hour from me or less.
anyone who could shed light on this please let me know
thank you for reading this, its interesting to me even sometimes. i replaced the front fenders and the grill when i was a kid, the guy who helped with the windshield also helped me, the grill was silver, it seemed odd to me??
i really dont care what the car is but my friends told me for yrs that this car was something neat and special we never figured it out, they always said there is something about that car?? i dont care what it is, as long as i can finally figure it out! ! ! i had a guy drive 6 hours one way just to look at it, and he said it was definetly worth the trip, he also wanted to buy it, but its not for sale, i dont care if its a 6 cylinder car, i had to much fun in it when i was a kid and i dont want people marching to my door to ask for it, when i was a kid i had this set up on the car, i had a 58 vette 2x4 set up factory down to the bolts for the thermostat housing and the linkage and all, i got hunted down so bad i had to hide them, and ended up selling them, i wont sell this car ever. i was offered my full mortgage payment for it, i turned it down in 1 second.
please let me know, someone out there can shed light on this

[iluv69s]

Im sure you will be getting some pm's soon with people wanting to buy your car. It seems as if you indeed do have a Copo camaro if all you are saying is correct. Congratulations !!
It sounds like you have some great memories and stories about the car. I'm sure everyone would love to see it and here some of your stories. . How about posting some pics here and I am sure the 'experts' will chime in and let you know exactly what you have and what is correct and what is not.Any old pics from back in the day??
If you have any questions that I can help with, let me know.

Once again great story !!!! Congrats!!! max

[69z28302]

SOunds like an interesting find. I am courious to what color combination it was originally? Glockner sold a bunch of Hi-Po cars from their dealership. Would love to here more about this car.
Mike

[69 Post Sedan]

Great story and as Mike said would love to see pictures. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/[/img]

You have come to the right place to get the correct information, that's for sure.

All the numbers seem to be correct although it appears the rearend was assembled either the same day or a day before the car was built. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img]

Kurt [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

[ronnieredline]

well i have a photo my dad took of me, it has an SS emblem on the front but i took off the ones on the fenders, but left the camaro emblem, i think the dealer put the SS emblems on it to sell it as a 396 car, i can validate the photo because my dad is an engineeer of 40 yrs, and he helped design the Dash 80 jet engine, among others things but i was wearing the shirt in the photo which advertised the dash 80 engine that he brought home for me, that along with the title proves ive had it that long, it was all white with a chrome bumper, i can find all the Z21 trim parts on the car, so it must have had the Z21 package, it also has a factory tach,center clock , and full console with the guages, only thing is i got 2 sets of guages with the car, silver ones and black ones, the silver ones all worked except for the amp guage, but the black ones all work, so i wonder if someone swapped them out, because they didnt work? or did it come with black face guages? i think if it didnt, it should have, because they match the dash guages and the silver ones dont??? im trying to restore the original console, i got some dye but it wasnt right at all, so i bought a junk console to experiement with, did you guys know you can glass bead a console down to the original white and it doesnt hurt it at all??? it works great! ! ! in the photo it has a black grill but this is right after i got it off the rollback and got it back home, it had a fender bender when i was a kid, so i replaced both front fenders and the grill, a black one was the only one available back then so i had to get it, i still have some bow tie emblems for it, they also came in the trunk??? this car has factory disc brakes also , it had a 427 on the lower fender skirts, and was written on the inner fender wels, but i painted over them when i coated the whole car with black rustoleum when i was a kid, im not sure about both of them, but i do have one original skirt with the writing on it, the car is blue inside, everything is blue dash, seats, console,carpet, package tray, i mean everything even the seat belts the belts are dated 42 A 69, which seems correct?? you know chevy dropped the ball on the seat belts guys, where do you put the one for the shoulder belt [the female] it just flops around, i have been doing extensive research and saw one car that had a clip in which it held the female shoulder belt?? im going to use a set of 67 console belt clips and screw them to the shifter tunnel right in front of the front seat, it looks sharp and holds the belts there, just make the hole a little bigger and they click right in. there is a photo on here of a white copo car, this is exactly what my car looked like except mine had a chrome bumper, my car also has the under hood light,trunk light and under dash lights, and also has a fiber optic wire for the ash tray? did you guys know there was a rectangle plug that went in under the cowl right above the windshield wiper motor? its still there on mine. i will try to answer any questions, mine is still standing un answered, why is the BE1030G2 with a &quot;E&quot; under the stamps, it is a F239 casting?
please let me know
thank you

[69 Post Sedan]

BE(4.10) 1030 (October 30th) G2 (2nd shift) E (Eaton Posi). It appears the rearend was cast on June 23rd and sat until they used it in October which seems very possible.

Think of it this way....a bunch of rearends were cast and put in bins, when the parts started to get low, they had more made. So your rearend might have been sitting while the newer ones were being used. They didn't rotate stock.

Kurt

[al8apex]

how many PM's have you had with offers to buy it?? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

[ronnieredline]

the rear end was cast F239 then it sat but it was assembled on 1030, the car was started on 10E fifth week oct, meaning the rear was assembled on the 30th of oct, my car was started 10E first week in november

[ronnieredline]

the car is the original color, it is a 50 50 car, dover white, the door ends and the quater ends that you dont see when the door is closed are original paint, its kinda yellowish white, like its faded over the yrs. it has the original hood marked 42nd week of the yr, original trunk lid h 35 or 42 im not sure i will check it, it has a front and rear spoiler, and has the center brace hole drilled out for the center brace, but its the only brace i dont have??? the quarters are either 42 or 43 i cant tell, the drivers door has 2 stampings behind the door panel, one is a H35 i think but it is at the bottom, the other one is at the top and is a H42 i think, the pass side has one stamp and it matches the drivers door upper stamp., i found the grommet and wires for the original cowl hood wiring, about 12 inches are left on the engine side but the interior side has the whole length to go to the fuse panel.
i wonder if there is a build sheet under the headliner? someone told me there might be, it is ripped a little and the seems are dry rotted but still holding, i might have a look under the headliner to see if i can find a build sheet.
im going to get a pad of paper and write down all the numbers i can find on this whole car and record them so i will have them close at hand. i do have the starter and it is a 1108418 i think, i have the bellhousing for the clutch it is a 621 aluminum type and in mint shape, it has a clip on one of the bolts to hold the starter wires from hitting the exhaust. i twisted the driveshaft once when i was doing a front wheel stand, and it sliced the floor pans up a little, but not noticable, but i did just get done fixing the shifter hole from when i cut it out when i was a kid. i think they should have never sold a hurst super shifter, a friend told me my car was an automatic because it had a lever on the bottom of the steering column and the shifter hole was cut out with a torch, i said why does it have a clutch pedal then??? well over the yrs, i found out the truth, it has a reverse lockout, which i think goes on the car and the torched cut out hole well, thats the way they did it in 69, so i have finally got it mig welded back and found the bottom original hole for the shifter and about 2 inches of the original torch cuts from the factory are still there, if i showed you the repair and you didnt know it was fixed, you wouldnt even know it or notice, thing is im usually cussing someone who chops up cars, well i did it myself when i was about 19, so now at 45 guess who's kicking who??
anyway i will try to load a photo of it soon, i do have a photo of me and the car when i was 18, the tile says 38000 miles on it and when i bought it the clerk personally came out to inspect the cars milaege to make sure, its how they did it back then i guess, he said how much are you paying son? i told him and he said&quot; dont you think thats alot for this car&quot;? but compared to nowdays, you couldnt even by a sub frame for that. to get ready for the wedding i checked the rear brakes, well they havent work at all since ive owned the car, passenger was locked up and leaked sometimes but the drivers side worked but it has a cracked drum, the pass drum is in mint shape not even worn but the drivers is worn badly and cracked, i took off the original brake shoes and the original cylinders to it, i had to, in order to get it going for the wedding.it still has the original clips on the rear end to hold the brake lines and also the clip under the differential cover bolt as well, i had to replace the pass side brake line, i tried to save it but it was to rusted, but i saved and used the spring scuff guard on the new line. i have stuff from this car that i took off since i was a kid, oh by the way dad wouldnt let me drive it to school, he said no way son, i had to take the ford mustang or my 1979 honda civic, bummer but id bet i would have gotten bothered over it and he knew it to.
please give me time to answer all questions and i will get to them asap.
thank you

[ronnieredline]

i have had no PM's to offer to buy it and as i said, in a mild manner tone, it is not for sale.
id love to discuss anything about the car, but if people start to come to my door, i will dissapear once again. it just scares me to no end. its been a fun car, cops pull you over just to see it, thats always fun??? ive out ran so many cops in it, i think they hit their lights just to see how fast it really ran, but i wont out run them now, to hard to fix and its a felony now, i get week in the knees for real when i just get a little wild in it, no joke. i did have 2 state boys,2 sherriffs, 2 county mountys on my tail at one time, i wound it out tight and shut off the lights and screamed by the moon lit night, they turned off their lights and let it be. is was fast in its day, i shifted at 9000 sometimes 8000 but it took it very well for about 8 yrs or so till i took out the motor, when i pulled the motor it sat for another 15 yrs or so, miraculously my driving record is perfect?? hmmmm maybe it was that car??? the rear diff had a plastic tag on it with a weird size bolt or cap, it is known now it belongs there. thers alot to research on the car. my next question is, is it the last copo made? does anyone know of a copo made on the last day of the first week of november, my car was made the first week of november 10E i did the math and at 700 cars a day mine falls in to about the last 4,5,6,7 or 8th day before the last camaro rolled off the line, i looked it up on CRG. my car has the body number after they started the roll over in late 69 and my VIN is in the last 4-8 days of production, anyone know of a camaro even made this late besides mine? if they do is it a copo? is mine a copo? to be determined.
thanks for your question