Mecum - Pebble Beach

[daveg]

I agree and disagree with this.

First "numbers matching" to a Chevy person generally means the partial VIN on block pad.

Hemi Mopars do not have that until 68 on bellhousing area of block.
It is on machined pad by oil pan 69- 71.

In the 80's when I was very active with Hemi Mopars {18 of them] most loose blocks floating around did not have any partial VIN's on them.
You can thank old racers for this as Hemis were- are quite successful at it. Was at the Brainerd NHRA nationals a few years ago and watched John Forces crew freshen a motor up.
looked to be a copy of a 426 to me.

Numbers- dates being right on all parts was the focus.
Ever try to find factory bolts and odd washers for Hemi exhaust manifolds?
The odd hardware for attaching intake manifolds?

That is my background and why we are such detail freaks about her "OLE BLUE" 69 L78 M22 Chevelle hardtop.

Her 68 converts all have 13867 VIN's so not a worry there.
Her 68 hardtop is 13837 so no worries there either.

The 69 is 13637 like any V-8 Chevelle and the other stuff authenticates it.
It is very original and why she bought it.
Thought all its little details would be of interest but that does not seem to be the case.
Interesting to us though and that is the main point.

Agree that more attention is being paid to the "born with" thing on Mopar's.
Seems to be more high-end collectors chasing multiple makes nowadays and the "born with" thing is pretty deeply entrenched in Chevyland.

Personally, I like pretty much all.
Even had a couple 68 AMX 390 4 spd cars.

The Hemi phase taught me to look at the dates- numbers minutia. Remember not everyone likes the same thing and that is good.

Pics are my current illness!!!

Originally Posted by tom406

I'm going to note that while musclecar era Mopars and Fords have relied much less on "numbers matching" born-with engines to prove their provenance, as these cars get more expensive I am seeing "numbers matching" engines becoming more important to buyers, probably for bragging rights. The value uptick for original engine in 428CJ Mustangs and Hemi or 6 pack cars has increased over the last decade and buyers concern for it has grown. IMO.

[Steve Shauger]

Originally Posted by daveg

Chevy folks [with the exception of 66- 68 SS chevelles] are used to the VIN telling you basically nothing.
Cowl tags are sorta worthless also.

Not so on either count with Mopars.
VIN tells you EXACTLY what motor came in car.
Fender tag or tags tell you exactly what came on car.
Build sheets are common in Mopars also.

"Born with" is secondary to proper dates- numbers on Hemi Cars.

Heck of a lot easier to fake a LS6 Chevelle than a Hemi Mopar.

No matter what brand, fake cars are built. Your example of Mopar is misleading. For example cars have been built with just the VIN tag, and accurate repop fender tag have been available for years. My point like all brands fake Mopars exist, especially with the values they bring.

Regarding your example of LS6's most have buildsheets or data cards validating original build equipment components. Yes these can be faked as well. Another point is if you are purchasing a car due your diligence and hire an expert to inspect the car. Many cars have known histories. If you truly want a no excuse car you need to do research and if you have limited knowledge hire someone reputable.

Finally, for me I am only interested in no excuse cars with born drivetrain, real docs and original as possible. Although paperwork is important, I still own cars with no paperwork, but Vin, Trim and Components are validated and are real as rain.

[Hawkeye]

You wrote: "Thought all its little details would be of interest but that does not seem to be the case."


I would just like to state that this group is very much into all the little details. It just needs to be presented in a format that can be followed. Tell the story from the beginning. Post clear pictures and talk about what is found. We all learn from original cars and it is very fascinating to most here. You will see most threads on recently discovered or purchased cars do get a lot of feedback.

Cheers,
Marty