704ever, are you also saying that at the Mecum Indy there is also a Silver LS6 and it's not a known or something with this car? Since you just mentioned the black one? Is the black one just a better, more correctly restored car?

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0520-41...-chevelle-ls6/

----Missing the smog equipment as well as sketchy master and booster. That's with one very quick look.....Bill S

----Also nice but incorrect wheels and aftermarket radio!

I had read the description on the Silver car and to me it's very vague and poorly represented. To me, the restoration leaves a lot to be desired and there is a reason the estimated value is quite a bit lower than the Black car I mentioned. The true value of these LS6 cars remains much higher when the original drive lines are present, factory correct restorations are evident and when documentation is presented so it can be verified as original. The Silver car shows none of these qualities in its' representation. It's well known in the hobby that there are a lot fake LS6's cars around and that is why it's so important to have someone like Chris or Rick do an inspection before anyone drops a 150K on one of these cars. I went to one Mecum auction down here in Kissimmee a few years ago, there were 12 or 13 LS6 cars running across the block and I believe only 2 of them were real from what I could see. It's just buyers " REALLY BEWARE " with these cars. JMO on the subject.

Thanks 704. I wasn't aware there were THAT many not fully documented cars. I honestly thought, by looking at recent auctions, I didn't think the "normal or average" LS6 were that much honestly. There are a few in town where I live now. Just wondering IF there real cars and how does one tell? I like these cars around the 80's range. At 125+ I would rather have a 69 COPO myself.

Not knocking or anything, just learning as I didn't know a ton about LS6's, just the basics. I would also only look at nice drivers myself as I would be using one IF I ever did purchase.

Thanks, John

It amazes me that there aren't people going to jail for fraud.

Some have, Mike D for starters but as soon as he got out of jail he went right back at it again. Most of the cases that I am privy to, the offender plea bargained off or served a little time and then went right back to it.

I have commented on it before but a few years ago was the busiest year I have had for inspections around the country. I did 37 LS6 inspections and 30 of them were either completely fake or had major issues such as restamped drivetrains in real cars. I even have had 'friends' who have knowingly bought and sold fake cars or restamps and they continue to keep up their old habits, all in the name of money and greed. It has really put a sour taste in my mouth for not only the hobby but some so called 'friends'.

When a hobby turns into a business, thieves will sprout like mushrooms

Exactly. I thought the laws were catching up to this kind of stuff??

I know being Canadian, I have the benefit with GM Canada documents. BUT really that just tells you that THAT CERTAIN serial # was this, not that the actual car your looking at is it? With cars hit the $$$ as they are, fake and fraud is going to go up too.

Just wondering, with US cars mainly, how do you know FOR SURE that a LS6 is as represented? I have a couple of friends with cars, first one is a AMERICAN 1970 Chevelle SS396 that was brought up about 15 yrs ago. It was converter FROM a 396 to a 454. Now this owner tells people that its an original 70 SS LS5 with AC and auto? Says they can't prove it's not due to no GM USA records??? Second friend has a 1969 Camaro SS 396 Convertible. It is probably an original car. But how can you tell if it really a BB convert? I believe the car can be decoded as a SS convert, but not sure on BB SS convert?

Thanks, John

I think Chris and I pretty much do the same thing (I learned it from him) as I have an 11 page inspection worksheet where I go over virtually every major item on the car, check part numbers, dates, codes, etc. It is a culmination of all those items on the inspection report and the actual physical condition of the car that allows me to determine if a car is 'potentially' real or not. I also look at the overall restoration (if restored) of a car and see what all was done, how it was done, what is original and what is not. Based on the bodies inspection a lot can be told and determined from that as well. I also have a very extensive 30 year old database that helps me if that particular cars history is in it. There are also small nuances that changed from plant to plant and day to day. Again, drawing from my database I check to see if a particular car follows what I have documented. Yes things could have been changed during a restoration but again, I take everything into an account.

I cannot speak for Chris but I will never certify a car. I only write up a conclusion report and give my professional opinion as to its originality. Both Chris and I have been restoring, documenting and inspecting these cars for many years and I could very easily build a car from scratch that had every correct factory part and was correctly date coded including fake paperwork to disguise itself as a real LS6. No one would ever know it was a fraud unless they owned the car at one time in its previous life. If Chris or I can do that so can others and unfortunately they do. That is why I will never certify one. Based on the history of the car, previous owners, restoration photos, etc, etc I hope that I can make a very honest decision as to whether a car is real or not. I know I have been fooled at least once so it can happen again but without full documentation there is just no way to know if a car started out as an original LS6 bodied car unless you were there on the assembly line when it was made.

There were 6 plants that produced the LS6 and unless you know each plant intimately most fraudulent restorers will never know all the minor differences between the plants such as font, stamp locations, clips, solenoid designs, undercoating and sound deadener application, primer colors, etc, etc. Same goes for the 'reproduction' paperwork, there are lots of differences between the plants in how the sheets were done. They unfortunately are getting damn good and faking those. The sad part is a vast majority of the paperwork that is being reproduced is being done so by the current car owner and for 'show' purposes only but it never gets sold the next time that way.

Thanks Rick.