***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Guys,

Just a heads up in case some of you might be considering the purchase of the car below:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet...1QQcmdZViewItem

Although I can vouch that this car is a true RS Z/28 that originally came with the options shown, the car does not have 29,000 original miles. I personally looked this car over about 4 years ago and there were signs of major body work which was of poor quality. At the time I looked at it, the car had a big block and there was no sign of ANY of the original drivetrain. It had incorrect interior which was in poor condition.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

The price is up to 66,000 with no numbers being shown? Non X code car? Flat hood, short spoiler? Has the 7000 rpm tach. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

[ QUOTE ]
The price is up to 66,000 with no numbers being shown?

[/ QUOTE ]

Things that make you go Mmmmmmm.....

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

How can you be sure this is the same car. That is a bold statement.


Jason

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

[ QUOTE ]
How can you be sure this is the same car

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a guess here, but....since he looked the car over personally several years ago, perhaps he wrote down the VIN and kept it https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

CAUTION-FAN

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

[ QUOTE ]
How can you be sure this is the same car. That is a bold statement.


Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

Give me a break! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Give you a break? A simple answer would be nice. I have seen people talk trash about a car before and it has turned out to be a different car entirely. Was my question out of line?

Jason

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Jason,

You think I would be stupid enough to make such a statement without having info that would stand up in court? If the Admins thought I had no credibility, this thread would have been gone by now.

Just amazing - you put out a message in the hopes that you can prevent fellow hobbyists from getting scammed and someone calls you out. How about calling the seller out? Ever think that selling something with such low mileage with NO supporting documentation from previous owners or pics of numbers is "a bold statement"?

I guess this comes back to the debate we have been having on this site for the past year - who should we be protecting, the buyer, or the seller? I know where you stand Jason.....

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Hylton....Calm down...He had a valid question. If someone makes a statement we need to try and include info to back up the statement.

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

I like to protect the victim. The seller can sometimes be the victim too. I hope there are no hard feelings, sometimes typed words can come across as synical or sarcastic. If that is how my words came across I appologize. This was not my intent. There was a post not too long ago about the jet boat with an LS6 in it. I immediately believed the buyer got scammed and it turned out that was not the case, as he had scammed many people as a seller in the past. I just like to cover all my bases before forming an opinion.


Jason

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

<font color="blue"> </font> sir we have an inspection report from american classix of bolivar missouri that states NUMBERS MATCHING ENGINE AND TRANS THAT ORIGINALLY CAME IN CAR. THE INSPECTION ALSO STATES BODY STRAIGHT, RUST NONE ALL PANELS ORIGINAL, SIGNS OF BONDO NONE COLLISION DAMAGE NONE, DOORS FIT EXCELLENT, NO RUST ON UNDER CARRIAGE,IT WAS RATED CLASS ONE---EXCELLANT. I CAN'T HELP BUT THINK YOU LOOKED AT A DIFFERENT CAR SIR. THE CAR IS IN EXCELLANT CONDITION. IF YOU HAVE ANYOTHER PROBLEM OR CONCERNS ABOUT MY CAR PLEASE CONTACT ME AND I WILL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE THANKS JIMMY

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

I am sorry for my short fuse Jason and apologize. I am just constantly seeing this kind of stuff and it has really gotten out of hand. To make matters worse, people just sit back and let it happen. Not my problem so not getting involved seems to be the theme these days.

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

<font color="black"> </font> THANKS JASON FOR TRYING TO DEFEND US I HAVE PROVIDED HYLTON WITH INSPECTION REPORT STATEMENTS FROM THE AMERICAN CLASSIX OF BOLIVAR THAT STATES THE ENGINE AND TRANS NUMBERS MATCH THE ORINGAL NUMBERS. THNAKS AGAIN JIMMY

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Jimmy,

Glad you have posted. I do not know who inspected the car or how much experience they have with 1969 Camaros but I can tell you that if this car is VIN number 124379N545561 then I have in fact personally inspected the car BEFORE it was restored. At that time, it had shoddy body work and did not have the original drivetrain in it. Nonetheless, the person who I was with bought this very car. He had been trying to sell it for quite a while in Toronto and finally sold it to a restorer.

In addition, this car was sold on Ebay a little more than a year ago by the person that restored the car. I will be more than happy to forward you the name and phone number of one of the past owners. How can you make the claim that the car has only 29,000 original miles? Do you have written statements from past owners? The individual who sold it last year on Ebay did not make that claim.

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Just because a car is inspected doesn't mean that everything is correct. Anything that is restamped can mean numbers matching. The buyer can always call Jerry MacNeish to look at it and verify the car. Hylton just made a statement buyer beware, check it out. If I was buying the car and I knew someone on this site new something about it, I would want them to share, Wouldn't you? If everything checks out then great! Car looks very nice to me but I am viewing it from the computer.

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

It would have been more clear if Hylton's initial post had been more like .... " If this car is VIN number 124379N545561 then I have in fact personally inspected the car BEFORE it was restored. At that time, it had shoddy body work and did not have the original drivetrain in it. Nonetheless, the person who I was with bought this very car."

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Charlie, Your friend bought the car? How does it look? It is close to my VIN 547891.

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Funny how Jimmy did not respond to my last post even though he read it. On the contrary, he has not sent me anything. Sam will be posting the GM docs for this car which I received from one of the owners about 5 years ago.

Jimmy, I have just found out that you had in fact, talked to the person who owned the car when it had a big block. You know very well that the car does not have 29,000 original miles on it and the originality of the car is suspect.

So now I am asking you to end the auction RIGHT NOW or update your auction accordingly. Be honest about the car. If you do not by tonight, I will be emailing all high bidders with the name and phone number of the previous owner. He will be making a statement on this thread in a short while.

Nothing wrong with saying that it is a restored car. It is after all a real RS Z/28 with a very very rare color/option combo. The Camaro world is small and like I have said in the past, cars always have a history!

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

American Classix is Alan Stanton. He has a nice website: www.americanclassix.net.

There's no mention on the website about expertise authenticating Camaros but he has several classic and musclecars listed for sale.

He has a nice 68 Camaro for sale. Here are a couple of pics of that car's "numbers". I'll let you make your own conclusions as to integrity and/or restoration skills:

http://www.americanclassix.net/carpi...%20eng%206.jpg

http://www.americanclassix.net/carpi...%20eng%205.jpg

I'm with Hylton on this one: "Bullsh!t".

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Time to haul out the dancing banana:

http://corvettes-musclecars.com/yenko.net/busted.gif

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Hey Denis, I see what you mean. There is something fishy about this car. HMM https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif I think I got it....No fan caution sticker. Thats it! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

MY HAT OFF TO HYLTON, I THINK WE SHOULD ALL APPLAUD HIS CONCERN FOR FELLOW HOBBYIST'S, THERE SHOULD BE MORE PEOPLE LIKE HIM.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

DITTO https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

As a previous owner of that car(Nov 02 to April 04) I can say that there was a big block in it while I owned the car and that the original block to the car was definitely nowhere to be found . So it is very surprising that the numbers now are matching.As to the "29 000 original miles" the odometer showed 28 545 miles when I bought it but judging by the condition of the car I would have been more inclined to think that it was the second turn around for the odometer. So nobody knows for sure if it is one way or the other. Yes, my car's v.i.n. was 124379N545561.
Hopefully this helps.

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

I am happy to report that the last few bidders have retracted their bids and the bid now stands at 62,000 from 70,000 a few hours ago. I am still asking Jimmy to be a man and end the auction or replace it with a more honest description of the car.

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Like restored car....????

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

[ QUOTE ]
Like restored car....????

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Along with a more accurate mileage description and the fact that this may not necessarily be the original drivetrain. Heck when I looked at it, there was a 10 bolt under it. Auction sounds like it has been sitting in someone's garage unmolested for 35 years.

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

[ QUOTE ]
American Classix is Alan Stanton. He has a nice website: www.americanclassix.net.

There's no mention on the website about expertise authenticating Camaros but he has several classic and musclecars listed for sale.

He has a nice 68 Camaro for sale. Here are a couple of pics of that car's "numbers". I'll let you make your own conclusions as to integrity and/or restoration skills:

http://www.americanclassix.net/carpi...%20eng%206.jpg

http://www.americanclassix.net/carpi...%20eng%205.jpg

I'm with Hylton on this one: "Bullsh!t".

[/ QUOTE ]

Where are the broach markings? Do I see remnants of a decked block? Why aren't the numbers consistant with GM stampings as far as straightness?
Hell... What do I know??? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

HMMM!!!!!..Rivet!!!!!Rivet!!!!!!!

Ken

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay *DELETED*
 

I am Bubbles

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

I would sure like to see and hear how this car was reunited with its original engine AND transmission. Someone found two needles in the haystack, or maybe they were in separate haystacks.

Can't believe the hack job on that 68. Those Ace Hardware rivets are a scream. And the restamped engine!! Pretty bad.

Thanks to Hylton for having the stones to come forward with this info, and thanks to the previous owner for posting.

Jimmy: You may be an honest guy that has simply been mislead by others. Obviously Hylton does not think so, and he is certainly entitled to that opinion. A word to the wise here. A lot of guys think they can intentionally misrepresent original miles on a car if it is over 10 years old. Not saying you are intentionally doing so, but sure looks like you have a good reason to investigate further. Just because the federal odometer disclosure law does not apply to cars over 10 years old, doesn't mean that common law fraud does not apply. Just ask that St. Louis classic car dealer. They were sued (successfully) for fraud on a misrepresented classic with a rolled back odometer.

Food for thought.

Lynn

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Well guys I am the culprit that thought the BUYER of the BOAT with the LS6 Was getting dumped on and made a comment like pay the seller a visit! Break his leg! ETC .I sure was wrong about those statements! so from now on I am going to be VERY careful what I say.But this thread sure makes you stop and think about this car!! especially with all the GOOD information HYLTON brought forward.

Bobby Dodson

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Im guessing by now that Jimmy isnt going to respond any more. Thats fine, none of this really matters to me at all, but interesting reading.

The part of the ad that jumped out to me was the $90K appraisal. I know that anyone can put any number on a car's value, but to put that number on that car (even without knowing the info presented in this thread) with a straight face is beyond me. Just how it goes these days, I guess.

dave

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Is this car sold new in Canada with GM of Canada docs? I owned the twin to this car other than the power windows back in 1971. Bought it from a banker that was transfered from Vancouver to Toronto. Sold it in about 1974 for 3000.00 to a guy from Dunville Ontario. Car was stunning with that color combo.

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Nice job Hylton! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Yes Rick , car was sold new in Montreal area and has Canadian documentation. When I bought it in 2002 it had a 10 bolt rear in it, M20 trans out of a 73 car, big block.Seller told me all floors had been replaced including trunk pan, 2 half quarters. There was not much left of original parts on the car. It's an extremely rare option combo though, rs/z28,power windows, deluxe blue int.

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

Great job busting another couple of obvious dupe jobs but what amazes me is how these crooksters often seem to show up w/ comments HERE....the most scary being the outright scammer a couple weeks ago who versed his text like he was from abroad? . The concern I have is how we are educating these guys on what's wrong w/ broaches, stampings, tag alpha numerics etc. and they're just going to do a better job next time? . I have no solution, just concern. ~ Pete

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

This thread is EXACTLY what needs to happen with suspect cars. I have no problems with clones. I have major problems with fakes and fraud. These guys need to understand they can and will get sued. What they do is illegal and immoral. Great job, Hylton!
Dave

Re: ***WARNING*** 69 RS Z/28 on Ebay
 

When are these people going to learn that with the invention of the internet (Thanks Al Gore https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif) that the world has become an infinitely smaller place, and that there's TREMENDOUS knowledge about cars and their previous owners. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif