69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

The new issue of Hot Rod has quite a bit of info on the GM licensed repro Camaro Convertible body. How will the details work with the VIN#'s, Trim Tags, Emblems, etc with these cars? Essentially everything is available to build a "Repro" 69 Camaro from the ground up. Also, what do these cars do to the value of original 69's? Maybe these cars should be registered so they don't end up being passed off as original cars.

In 10 years, we could have more 69 Camaro's running around than were built in 1969. I quess a great timless design never goes out of style.

Paul

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

I just got my issue today Paul and I was blown away!

The Green car with the wide white stripes was the car that debuted at SEMA last year.And the first-ever ad (two page no less!)for Dynacorn(?)Classic Bodies from Oxnard,CA.
"Cleared for take off" is how they have the ad worded.

Cleared indeed.I've heard turn-key cars in the low $40K range.

First "NEW" Camaro in 36 years.

The additional interest,mounted on top of what is considered by many to be the ultimate expression of American art,...the 1969 Camaro...and that can only add to the value of the original cars.

If you look closely at the picture of the underpinnings on the front end (pages 62 & 63),is it just me or does that subframe not look as beefy in wall thickness as the original?Just a thought.

Everyone should go out and check out this issue,it really is complete from conception to completion.

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

quote:

In 10 years, we could have more 69 Camaro's running around than were built in 1969....Paul

In case you haven't looked we already do!!!!

wilma https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

Not sure if there's more cars yet but certainly more Big Blocks than built in '69?

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

They had one of those new Camaro bodies at Pavillions last weekend...We looked at it pretty closely. It had an aftermarket frame under it, though. No pictures...sorry!

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

Just like the old time early 30's Ford Fiberglass body rods...This will make the reals worth more..

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

I have taken a tour of manufacting site for these body shells, and I think they are great for a hot rod or pro-touring project, but the problem starts when some folks try to pass them off as orignal Z28's, SS396,COPO's,Yenkos and so forth, but its those peole that are detrimental to the hobby and preservation of original numbers matching cars. just my 1/2 cents worth. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

There was some things about the body I did not like.

The metal convertible bows/top for instance. In several of the pics with the top up the curvature just did not seem right. It did not have that classic 67-69 look. Kinda like a cheap Ertl $40 diecast. The basic look is there but you know something is just not right

I also wonder about the final fit and finish. Hot Rod did their best to smooze over this and protect their advertisor. Go to Dynacorn's site under the "Joe Parts" Q&A. People are always complaining about the fit of the Dynacorn parts-even the stuff that has recently come out. For instance the mustang door shells they make are known in mustang circles to be horrendous. I have seen them in pics posted on mustang sites and "remedies" people have to do to make them fit. I'm talking mig welding on extra metal because they are shorter than the factory doors.

Joe Parts answer to them is always "We have not heard that before" (yeah right)or "one defective piece may have gotten through" etc etc.

I also saw the Dynacorns Mustang convertible frame rails on display at Spring Carlisle. The look was there as much as I could tell but man where they thin. After repairing the ftrame rails in my car I could feel that they were thinner.

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

Is this the same Camaro that sold at BJ earlier this year?, the green with the white stripes?. If it was that car just did'nt look right. If thats what their going to sell, great!!, it would be easy to tell the difference.

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

I think we as Camaro enthusiasts should embrace this "new" Camaro,not wish for it to be inferior to our cars.

It obviously isn't going to go away and as with anything new,there are kinks that need to be worked out.

All this car can do for our hobby with all the extra attention it brings to an original 36 year-old design is
make the originals appreciate even faster than they normally would...if you can attach any kind of "normal" appreciation to a 1969 Camaro...and it's related parts. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

I personally can't wait for the hardtops to follow with all the hot tuners out there.

The 1969 Camaro lives on.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

[ QUOTE ]
They had one of those new Camaro bodies at Pavillions last weekend...We looked at it pretty closely.

[/ QUOTE ]

That we did. I inquired of the representative who had it on display there as to how the car would be titled/registered. She said the body is considered a "replacement part" and so if you already had an original car for which you were "replacing" the body, it is legal to swap the VIN and Trim Tags. That's pretty much the answer I figured I was gonna get https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They had one of those new Camaro bodies at Pavillions last weekend...We looked at it pretty closely.

[/ QUOTE ]

That we did. I inquired of the representative who had it on display there as to how the car would be titled/registered. She said the body is considered a "replacement part" and so if you already had an original car for which you were "replacing" the body, it is legal to swap the VIN and Trim Tags. That's pretty much the answer I figured I was gonna get https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you ask her to put it in writing?

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

[ QUOTE ]
I inquired of the representative who had it on display there as to how the car would be titled/registered. She said the body is considered a "replacement part" and so if you already had an original car for which you were "replacing" the body, it is legal to swap the VIN and Trim Tags. That's pretty much the answer I figured I was gonna get https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew that would be the kind of answer you would receive Bill. I was just waiting for someone to come forth and say it. This opens up a VERY big can of worms, for me anyway! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif This type of stupidity really burns my A$$!

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

I'm sure that someone is watching this thread and where those bodies go very Carefully! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure that someone is watching this thread and where those bodies go very Carefully! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Suddenly, the importance of the original trim & VIN tags
will become a hot topic on eBay and let's all watch how the
prices soar on those........ https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Steve

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

I understand that there is a federal law that says if the original vin # is removed for any reason you have to file for a state assigned #. You can get into big trouble if you change it. At least that is the legal answer I recieved here in OKla.

Changing a vin #, even onto a new part is against the law. There are bound to be some big problems arrise over this one.
Someone is bound to screw it up for everyone trying to scam someone out of thier hard earned money.

Pantera

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

I'm sure someone will document the many differences between the Fisher bodies and these new ones...at least I hope someone will...there has to be a ton of differences...

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They had one of those new Camaro bodies at Pavillions last weekend...We looked at it pretty closely.

[/ QUOTE ]

That we did. I inquired of the representative who had it on display there as to how the car would be titled/registered. She said the body is considered a "replacement part" and so if you already had an original car for which you were "replacing" the body, it is legal to swap the VIN and Trim Tags. That's pretty much the answer I figured I was gonna get https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill, didn't she put a "mini" disclaimer in her statement saying that that way the law in Arizona...or something to that effect? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Hey...you guessed who the mystery guest at Pavillions was last weekend...it was you! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

[ QUOTE ]
I understand that there is a federal law that says if the original vin # is removed for any reason you have to file for a state assigned #. You can get into big trouble if you change it. At least that is the legal answer I recieved here in OKla.

Changing a vin #, even onto a new part is against the law. There are bound to be some big problems arrise over this one.
Someone is bound to screw it up for everyone trying to scam someone out of thier hard earned money.

Pantera

[/ QUOTE ]

No it's not illegal. The replacement body is considered a repair part similar to a quarter panel or full floor section.

Reference USC title 18 section 511 sub section (b)(1)

"(b)(1) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a
removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person
specified in paragraph (2) of this subsection ( <font color="red"> unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen</font>).

(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection are -

(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle
demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to such vehicle or part;

<font color="red"> (B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair;</font>

(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law;

and

(D) a person who removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by -
(i) <font color="red"> the owner or his authorized agent; </font>

(ii) applicable State or local law; or

(iii) regulations promulgated by the Attorney General to implement the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act.

http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/f...%28%29%20%20%2

Good discussion (one of many) took place on this subject on Camaros.net just about a year ago.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54260

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

The New Camaros are dimensionally the same as the old ones.Aside from the already mentioned issue of incorrectly contoured convertable top bows,the body should be externally identical to an actual production car.The oval side marker lights on the show car are option,but the base body comes prepared to look like a production car.The first major difference that will help distinguish these cars from originlas is that some body assemblies that were orginally multi piece units with welded construction have been consolidated into single stamping components.Because of this,the reproduction car will be missing some seams and welds that were found on the original cars.Some of the undercarrage details and contours might not be as crisp on the repop as the original,but for the most part a side by side comparision would be needed to really show the difference.Other then that,these cars are supposed to be as close to original as possible.They are certaily closer to the real deal then any fiberglass 32 Ford body ever was.

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

In California, a non original issued chassis gets an assigned DMV tag that represents a VIN for a frame, for example.
Shouldn't each and every one of these shells be assigned a permanent ID # that D.O.T can reference to prior to the release of these?
A HD frame made aftermarket can get one, every COBRA aftermerket body should have one; why wouldnt the US Gov't insist on enforcing a numbering system that can be used in a database for each and everyone of the units being brought into the US?

For example, a friend just purchased a remanufactured Farm Tractor, it had serial #'s present on the unit and was allowed US entry! A pefectly simple and useful system to keep records on the such.
Law Enforcement would have a COW if they had to establish this built car in the event of a drug raid, to identify this shell with an original GM/D.O.T. assigned but unable to locate the correct VIN locations behind the heater, frame, and other applicable areas!
This is not the end of the world on these shells!
Something is going to have to happen on assigning ID numberings for every one of these units prior to public release, or liability will be beyond comprhension(sp) in the event of a serious situation arising!

Look, GM was put into the position to assign the numbering system that we know of it today; Our US Gov't wouldnt allow GM to build chassis' without proper authorization! Why would OUR Gov't not do this with these, even now???????? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

It's one thing to stamp out the panels , sections,etc individually; it's another thing to assemble all seperate stampings into a shell such as these where most of us dont have an assmbly line to do so, thus FORD, GM Chrysler, etc etc etc.....
Where is the line drawn? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

According to the law the line is drawn when the "vehicle" is able to propel itself down the road. The shell is not a vehicle as defined by federal, therefore in the eyes of the law it is no different than a quarter panel, or fender.

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

[ QUOTE ]
Shouldn't each and every one of these shells be assigned a permanent ID # that D.O.T can reference to prior to the release of these?

[/ QUOTE ]

The completed shells have an "ID" number stamped in four different locations.


Rick H.

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

Bingo ! thats the kind of info people will need in the future...along with the areas of different manufacturing techniques.

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

They are supposed to be releasing the coupe the same time as the SEMA show or shortly after.

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

[ QUOTE ]
They are supposed to be releasing the coupe the same time as the SEMA show or shortly after.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I'm waiting to see...

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

[ QUOTE ]
According to the law the line is drawn when the "vehicle" is able to propel itself down the road. The shell is not a vehicle as defined by federal, therefore in the eyes of the law it is no different than a quarter panel, or fender.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have a Federal or State statute that you can refer us to that codifies this?

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

I can see this is a bag of worms and I am glad that I am not going to be one that will be caught up in it.

This has the potential for disaster as each state has a different way to look at this. I know if you remove a Vin # around here you better not get caught putting it on something else. Even if it is the original car it came off of. You could get a couple of years to study your mistake courtesy of the state.

The is no difinative fed law that will allow it to be done on a complete body. The problem with Fed law is each person/state can intertept it the way that fits thier need best.

What will you do if when you replace the entire body you become liable for EPA, crash tests, smog, and all the other crappy rules that the goverment imposes on the new car builders.

This is not just a "Repair Part" but a entire safety structure of a auto and in essense it will wind up a "NEW AUTO"!!!! Then what if the feds deem it needs all the Goverment crap including crash testing and all that sorta crap. Big $$$$$$$ I would hate to have that much tied up in a car and have that come back to haunt me 5/10 years down the line. If you sold it and had already spent the money, then where would you be?


Pantera

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
According to the law the line is drawn when the "vehicle" is able to propel itself down the road. The shell is not a vehicle as defined by federal, therefore in the eyes of the law it is no different than a quarter panel, or fender.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have a Federal or State statute that you can refer us to that codifies this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Third page of this thread, top reply by me:

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/show...0/fpart/3/vc/1

Heres the entire section dealing with VIN tampering, and the referenced defintions section from that post.

US Code Title 18 Section 511: Note Sections (B),(C), and (D) of Paragrah (2)

Section 511. Altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers

(a) A person who -
(1) knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters anidentification number for a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part;
or
(2) with intent to further the theft of a motor vehicle, knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years,
or both.
(b)(1) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).
(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection are -
(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to such vehicle or part;
(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair;
(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law; and
(D) a person who removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by -
(i) the owner or his authorized agent;
(ii) applicable State or local law; or
(iii) regulations promulgated by the Attorney General to implement the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act.
(c) As used in this section, the term -
(1) ''identification number'' means a number or symbol that is inscribed or affixed for purposes of identification under chapter 301 and part C of subtitle VI of title 49;
(2) ''motor vehicle'' has the meaning given that term in section 32101 of title 49;
(3) ''motor vehicle demolisher'' means a person, including any motor vehicle dismantler or motor vehicle recycler, who is engaged in the business of reducing motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts to metallic scrap that is unsuitable for use as either a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle part;
(4) ''motor vehicle scrap processor'' means a person -
(A) who is engaged in the business of purchasing motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts for reduction to metallic scrap for recycling;
(B) who, from a fixed location, uses machinery to process metallic scrap into prepared grades; and
(C) whose principal product is metallic scrap for recycling;
but such term does not include any activity of any such person relating to the recycling of a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle part as a used motor vehicle or a used motor vehicle part.
(d) For purposes of subsection (a) of this section, the term ''tampers with'' includes covering a program decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act for the purpose of obstructing its visibility.

Definitions of "Motor Vehicle" per Section 32101 of Title 49 referenced above:

(7) ''motor vehicle'' means a vehicle driven or drawn by mechanical power and manufactured primarily for use on public streets, roads, and highways, but does not include a vehicle operated only on a rail line.

(10) ''passenger motor vehicle'' means a motor vehicle with
motive power designed to carry not more than 12 individuals, but does not include -
(A) a motorcycle; or
(B) a truck not designed primarily to carry its operator or passengers.

(11) ''passenger motor vehicle equipment'' means -
(A) a system, part, or component of a passenger motor vehicle as originally made;
(B) a similar part or component made or sold for replacement or improvement of a system, part, or component, or as an accessory or addition to a passenger motor vehicle; or
(C) a device made or sold for use in towing a passenger motor vehicle.

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is not just a "Repair Part" but a entire safety structure of a auto and in essense it will wind up a "NEW AUTO"!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

After finding a rusted out hulk of a Yenko, BM or other Super Car (ID'd by paperwork, tags etc..) and then spend 10's of thousands of dollars rounding up the correct parts, NOS metal, correctly dated driveline (or rebuild what is there), then spend $100k or more restoring it to concours level, don't you essentially end up with a "new car"?? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

To be honest I don't care how people restore their cars, it's not my place to tell them. In my opinion they can restore it the way they want and if they can sleep at night and live with it so be it.

Rick H.

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

Great issue of HOT ROD. I love it when it actually takes longer than 5 minutes to blow through an issue. CAR CRAFT and ROD AND CUSTOM have been backsliding lately, though, IMO.

A few points:

1. As for passing one off as a real car, I think BelAir's got it right. Soon people will post the differences. Besides the size of the panels and consolidation of some, the size and stamping performance of the presses is much different between GM 1969 and Taiwan 2005. I'm sure they've tried to hide the differences, but they should be there with some digging.

2. The VIN# and titling issues are going to depend on the state you live in and who you are cozy with at the DMV. It's really not going to be any different than what the street rodders with repop '29/'32/'34/'37/'39/'40 Fords are going through. HOT ROD talks about some of the state to state variations. Some will be done with titles of parts cars. Some will be pulled out of thin air with fresh Alabama titles or the like (could identity theft of cars become a problem?). Some will be titled as 2005 or 2006 homebuilts. It will run the gamut, based upon state laws and peoples creativity.

3. Next time you're at a street rod meet, ask a few guys where their VIN number is. You'll be shocked at how many of those pre-'49 hot rods have NO DISCERNIBLE VIN NUMBER anywhere on them. Some of the Fords only had the VIN on the frame (which is defaced or lost when the new V8 and IFS is put in, or lost entirely when an aftermarket frame is built) Others have tags spot welded to the cowl or door pillar which is lost when the body is dipped or removed for painting and never put back on. I can't tell you how many cars I've appraised, cars with years of work and $30 to 100K invested in them, that have absolutely no ID marks relating them to the title that supposedly binds them to the owner. I gently remind these guys that if the car is stolen and recovered, just how are the police supposed to know its theirs? I also pass on writing anything up for them until they get the issue sorted out.

4. Finally, I'm a big '69 Camaro fan and a general fan of the Pro Touring movement, when executed properly. But that green "HOT ROD 1" car is one of the ugliest '69's I've seen. After all that work I'd be upset with the result. Visually, nothing on that car works for me-the color, the stripes, the green grill surround, the satin wheels-nothing. I know they wanted something that would stand out in the sea of red cars, but man, that just isn't the way.

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

[ QUOTE ]

(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair;


[/ QUOTE ]
This one kinda covers a pretty broad range of things...Where do you draw the line on "reasonably" https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

Yes in a way you do wind up with a almost new "OLD CAR" but it is still the original car that it started life as. As such it is entitled to have the factory vin # affixed.

What I have been instructed by Auto Thief dectives here you can replace just about every part of a car but the doo piller post/dash that the vin # is/was originally attached to. I was cautioned to not destroy the firewall and or dash/door post where the hidden vin and the visable vin # was attached or I would have to file for a rebuilt state assigned vin # and would not be allowed to re-affix the original vin on to any aftermarket (IE:Not the original)body panel.

Now back to the subject of a totally new body that is not even manfactured in the US. What would you do if a few years after you built up a car and had it on the road and the feds captured it and would not release it, till you summited the crash and other federaly required documents since they deemed it a NEW CAR because the majority of it was built in 2005??? I would hate to have my money tied up in that. Someone could loose big time. Imagne having to watch it go into a auto crusher because you could not comply ($$$$)with thier demands.

I have been down this road in the past and have lost a nice 69 Z-28 because it was previously stolen and the vin # was changed. Could not get it back and the cops gave it to the last owner. We had a nice 65 vette that we sold to Bill Moch a collector near here and he found the frame # did not match the vin that had been changed and the cops kept that one too because it was a stolen car. I realize this is not the same thing as doing this to a legal car but trust me you have no idea just how big a hassle it can be to deal with local law enforcment sometimes. I was a used car dealer at the time and inocently bought these cars but I still lost on the deal.

Trust me, They don't have to do it your way and they and the feds have some funny ways of looking at these kind of deals.

I have a 60k mi 84 vette setting in the middle of my shop right now that was bought by a banker and he chishled the vin off and stole another car and put the vin # on it. Then he got caught driving it and went to jail. I was cleared of any involvment in the deal but they would not let me have the original vin # off the stolen car so I could replace it on my legal car. I was declaired the righfull owner of the car but to put it back on the street I will have to file for a state assigned Vin #. I knew that, back when I got the car and was planing on building a very radical custom car so the original vin would have not been a detriment. It just took the best part of a year for it to get cleared for me and I gave up on the project. IF anybody wants it for $2500 contact me. It is hit in front.

Pantera

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

Let's face it, the only parts of a car that I.D. it as "that car" are the areas where the VIN itself is stamped. Cut those out and weld them into the corresponding areas on a better body and, bodaboom-bodabing, instant rust-free survivor. Whether it's right or wrong is up to you,but you haven't technically removed the VIN, since it's still connected to the "car". What's your definition of "car" or "automobile"? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

[ QUOTE ]
Let's face it, the only parts of a car that I.D. it as "that car" are the areas where the VIN itself is stamped. Cut those out and weld them into the corresponding areas on a better body and, bodaboom-bodabing, instant rust-free survivor. Whether it's right or wrong is up to you,but you haven't technically removed the VIN, since it's still connected to the "car". What's your definition of "car" or "automobile"? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Your described procedure would absolutely be a felony under federal law. Not even a maybe. Eventually someone would find out, and if the info got to an interested law enforcement type, you would lose the car, it would be confiscated and if you were the person who did the switching you would be prosecuted as well. I am telling you this from a "legal beagle" standpoint, having worked on some of these types of cases. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

I would assume that's only true if you transfer those peices of sheetmetal to another "vehicle". Since by definition these body tubs are not vehicles in themselves, but "passenger motor vehicle equipment" by the referenced code above.

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would assume that's only true if you transfer those peices of sheetmetal to another "vehicle". Since by definition these body tubs are not vehicles in themselves, but "passenger motor vehicle equipment" by the referenced code above.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont mean to sound pompous on this subject matter but legally, I know what I'm talking about. The simple statutory definitions you cite do not hold any weight as precedent. You may reasonably believe that a common sense interpretation of them would support your position but unfortunately it does not. Case law is what the Court would have to base their opinion upon. And this is a new, unexplored, legal territory. Someone is going to have to be the "test case guniea pig" on this matter. I would not want to be the person who rivets their old VIN and firewall tag on one of these bodies and then tries to slip it through their local motor vehicle inspection station. You're bound to run into an inspector who knows about these new replacement bodies and then seizes the car as evidence of VIN tampering. Until some revision to the existing Federal Stautes is created, I think the only way to register one of them properly would be to apply for a state issued VIN number, just like the street rod builders do.

Then again, that's just my completely unbiased, semi-official, $500 an hour, legal opinion. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif Now where do I send my bill to?

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

Charley? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif Belair? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

NJSteve,

-------I can see some of what you are saying, but what inspector is going to look at your new body if you already own and have titled to you the old one? Heck, if the old rust-bucket is even plated how will anyone know to look. I dont think doing this kind of a switch is of interest to me but I cant see, under my criteria, where the problem would be, at least here in MI.!!!............Bill S

Re: 69 Camaro Body in the Crate
 

Through my travels I have met quite a few motor state vehicle managers, employees, inspectors, etc. They are briefed on new issues relating to motor vehicle fraud quite frequently. They are aware of these new bodies and I imagine they are waiting for the first one to show up with a 1969 VIN tag attached to it, and then they'll have to deal with it in person. I just wouldn't want to be the guy who just sunk $50K into a repro-bodied car that might just get confiscated while the whole process gets sorted out through the courts.

Hey, when do I get my own https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...elairSucks.gif, https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...arleySucks.gif, sign? It can read "Damn Lawyers Suck"