2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

I am preparing for a full (show quality) repaint on my '02 Camaro SS. I'm planning to transform the car into a ZL1 Phase II clone. This is not for the purpose of resale - it is solely for my own enjoyment. I met with the painter today, and I need some specifics regarding ZL1 paint. I need some very detailed pictures and measurements of the stripes - hood, roof, and rear deck/spoiler. Can anyone help me with this info? I understand this will take some time, so I'm willing to compensate for your time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

You may want to ask your questions on a differant forum. Clones, no matter how well intended, are often frowned upon by legitimate owners.

Some friendly advice.

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

While I do agree with Craig, I think with a newer car, like the one in question, one that will not see value increase for a long while, is quite different.

I would send an e-mail do the guys at GMMG.
http://www.gmmginc.net/index.html


-Dan

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

Craig - Thanks for the friendly advice, but I believe this is a matter of intent and opinion. Allow me to clarify for better understanding. As a long time classic car restorer and collector, I condemn cloning with the intent to deceive or misrepresent. However, I do not believe there is anything wrong with changing the appearance of a car to suit your personal taste. Isn't that what hot rodding is all about? After all - isn't that what a select group of dealers did to create the Supercars we all know and love? I'm not trying to duplicate or forge documentation - I simply want the ZL1 stripe that runs down the center of the car. Anyone who thinks this is wrong needs a serious reality check. Without customization and personalization, these cars and the hobby as we know it would not exist.

Dan - I will try GMMG, but historically they have been quite protective of anything relating to these cars.

Thanks!

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

I'm sure someone can measure one for you and take it from there...

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

Absolutely, it is up to you to do what you want with your car. However, I certainly understand the other side of this. For a really intense discussion, check this out over on Camaros.net

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59087

There is also a previous thread where brickyard69 talks about his old clone was being represented as a real Z/28, even though he sold it on ebay and represented it as clone.

Next sale the trim tag was swapped out!!!

Just some food for thought.

Lynn

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

Thanks for the "food for thought", but there are many things you are not taking into consideration. This issue may have significance for classics, but it has no relevance to late model vehicles.

First, consider the authentication process of a classic vs. late model. Obtaining original documents on a 30+ year old vehicle can be difficult, and in some cases impossible. Verifying the authenticity of a 2002 ZL1 is quite simple. GMMG and/or the selling dealer can verify the VIN.

Let's also consider the availability of parts. There are several items on the 2002 ZL1 that are not commercially available.

The distinctions continue with how I intend to apply the stripes. As mentioned in my first post, I am having the stripes painted. The stripes on all 2002 ZL1's are vinyl. All of those cars had the B4C package; my car does not. They were all equipped with a 6-speed manual trans, and mine is automatic. The list literally goes on, and on.

Another factor to consider is motivation. People clone and misrepresent vehicles for financial gain. The cost to accurately and completely clone a 2002 ZL1 would far exceed market value.

Just some food for thought.

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

I was just reading this thread and thought I would chime in... As a few of you know that own one of these vehicles in question and others that have seen these cars in real life, Matt Murphy covered his ass with the documentation of these cars. All GMMG cars have a TAG in the door and most if not all have a number on the rear view mirror.. Plus the tag on the dash over the radio that reads which car it is and its number plus horse power.. Matt also has a list of the cars that he did and what were done to each of them at his place before they were shipped to the dealers or new owners of the cars. As for you making a clone of this car would be great, I dont see anything wrong with that. Its not like these cars are for sale everyday, and a lot of us dont have enough money to purchase one to begin with. I say build whatever makes you happy, but if you ever go to resale hopefully the new owner would get a car fax on it to see where it came from and where its been... Mark https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

Tracy:

I was only trying to explain the reasonings behind the "anti-clone" philosophy. I personally have no problem with what you are doing. Just letting you know why there is so much sentiment in the opposited direction. As far as new vs. old, I can assure you that many a 69 Camaro got Z/28 badges and stripes when they were just a few years old.

Like I said, it is your car and you have the right to do whatever you want with it. I don't think anyone on this board believes you intend to some day pass it off as something it is not.

Lynn

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

Thanks for all of the feedback. I really do appreciate it.

Hopefully this car will never be in the hands of another until after I've moved on from this life. I began my search for a 2002 SS in February of 2002. I wanted a hardtop (no t-tops) with the 345hp package. I couldn't find what I wanted, so I settled for a '02 Z28. The search never really stopped, and in October of 2002 I found this car. The car is rarely driven; it's never seen rain.

The only negative aspect of this repaint is what caused the need for it. I recently picked up a pair of '67 GTO 400 HO 4-speed projects which are occupying the garage. I moved the Camaro out, and it was immediatley vadalized. Every body panel was heavily scratched. I'm in the process of a complete disassembly to ensure the repaint is done correctly. All of the body panels, glass, interior, and drivetrain are being removed.

I hope someone can help with specs on the stripes. I am investing a lot in this repaint, and I really want it done right.

Thanks!

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

"I moved the Camaro out, and it was immediatley vadalized." That really sucks that some [censored] would do this to a car... Which strip do you want on the car?? I have some pictures of these cars and I also have a friend that owns one here in St. Louis.. Mark

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am preparing for a full (show quality) repaint on my '02 Camaro SS. I'm planning to transform the car into a ZL1 Phase II clone. This is not for the purpose of resale - it is solely for my own enjoyment. I met with the painter today, and I need some specifics regarding ZL1 paint. I need some very detailed pictures and measurements of the stripes - hood, roof, and rear deck/spoiler. Can anyone help me with this info? I understand this will take some time, so I'm willing to compensate for your time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

[/ QUOTE ]

Our 02 Zl1's are very special cars that should not be cloned. Any unauthorized copy, or attempted copy, of anything is fecal matter in our society. Knock off Rolex, Calloway, etc are prime examples.

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

Come on Steve, don't hold back. How do you really feel about this?

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Matt Murphy covered his ass with the documentation of these cars. All GMMG cars have a TAG in the door and most if not all have a number on the rear view mirror.. Plus the tag on the dash over the radio that reads which car it is and its number plus horse power.. Matt also has a list of the cars that he did and what were done to each of them at his place before they were shipped to the dealers or new owners of the cars. Mark https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure about the ZL1 cars,but all Intimidator SS's have a block pad stamping with corresponding car number as well.Dale Earnhardt was an innovator with signature copyrighting and merchandising,enough so that when he passed away Teresa destroyed all the badging and related Intimidator SS items for fear of counterfit/cloning(sorry for the off topic)

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am preparing for a full (show quality) repaint on my '02 Camaro SS. I'm planning to transform the car into a ZL1 Phase II clone. This is not for the purpose of resale - it is solely for my own enjoyment. I met with the painter today, and I need some specifics regarding ZL1 paint. I need some very detailed pictures and measurements of the stripes - hood, roof, and rear deck/spoiler. Can anyone help me with this info? I understand this will take some time, so I'm willing to compensate for your time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

[/ QUOTE ]

Our 02 Zl1's are very special cars that should not be cloned. Any unauthorized copy, or attempted copy, of anything is fecal matter in our society. Knock off Rolex, Calloway, etc are prime examples.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps I should take a moment to clarify my original post to facilitate ease of understanding. I am not attempting an "unathorized copy", as you have implied. If you take a minute to read the entire thread, you will see that I'm interested in the stripe. Applying one visual element hardly constitutes an attempted copy.

Narrow-mindedness is the fecal matter of our society.

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

[ QUOTE ]
"I moved the Camaro out, and it was immediatley vadalized." That really sucks that some [censored] would do this to a car... Which strip do you want on the car?? I have some pictures of these cars and I also have a friend that owns one here in St. Louis.. Mark

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Mark,

I was completely broken when I found the damage. I parked the car and didn't touch it, or look at it, for six months. I'm hoping the complete repaint and a few other goodies will renew enthusiasm in the car. I'm looking for specs on the center stripe; hood, roof, spoiler and hatch.

Thank you!

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

I would think with all the documentation and unique pieces GMMG added to the car cloning would be next to impossible. Most of us even have pictures of our cars as they were being assembled. But.....if you really want to measure the stripes just get on I-10 and head east until you feel stupid...you will be in Alabama, keep going a few hundred miles and call me. At that time you will be about 350 south of Atlanta. I'll give you directions from there.

Hell, you might even want to take my original LS6 ZL1 engine back with you, the clutch, rear end, drive shaft, front end parts, A/C, gas tank, shifter and various other parts. J/K...I guess I'll have to store all that crap until Hell freezes over. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

Oppps....wrong picture.

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

You may want to check out 3rd Gen Decals...they are a very reputable company with quality products and have many stripes availible for 4th gen Camaros. I know they have the stinger hood stripe & hockey fender stripes.
3rd gen decals

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure about the ZL1 cars,but all Intimidator SS's have a block pad stamping with corresponding car number as well.Dale Earnhardt was an innovator with signature copyrighting and merchandising,enough so that when he passed away Teresa destroyed all the badging and related Intimidator SS items for fear of counterfit/cloning(sorry for the off topic)

[/ QUOTE ] Thats not off the subject at all. I know the two Z7D Phase 2X cars that we picked up from Berger last month had tags everywhere, the heads were dated and stamped with the machanics initials, but I didn't look at the block.. As for making a clone would be imposible to pass these days since everything is run by the Federal Government and computers, forging documents would intell breaking into CarFax, GMMG, GM, etc. to change a regular car over to a supercar.. Its not like the records that GM didn't keep from the late 60's - 70's on cars. Plus since there are so few of these cars made its impossible to clone this type of car.. I see no problem with this man taking his beat up vandilized car and turning it into something that he could be proud of.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif This is still America isn't it?? If someone wants to paint his car PINK and write you guys are assholes on the doors he can.. Oh yeah by the way it is his car isn't it??? Mark https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

Someone go out and measure the damn stripes already...after all...isn't an '02 ZL1 a tribute to a 69 ZL1 !!!

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

I agree belair... and correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all the stripes on a 2002 ZL1 just vinyl stickers anyhow?

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

Yes they are Joe, but Tracy wants to paint his on... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

I can just feel the love going on! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

If you don't watch out...someone's gonna post this! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/Charley.gif Though it wont be me!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

I'm not sure you could accurately measure them. Probably have to do some kind of complicated extrapolations based on pictures...or maybe not.

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

Nah just a cloth tape measure and a few pictures...it may not be exact but so what...it's not a real car anyway.

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

Not a real car anyway....bwaaaaaaaaaahahahahaaaaaaa....that's gonna leave a mark. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif I was talking about the guys car that needed the measurements... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif He can't make a GMMG ZL 1 !!! He's only looking for stripes !!!

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

[ QUOTE ]
I see no problem with this man taking his beat up vandilized car and turning it into something that he could be proud of.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif This is still America isn't it?? If someone wants to paint his car PINK and write you guys are assholes on the doors he can.. Oh yeah by the way it is his car isn't it??? Mark https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
https://www.yenko.net/attachments/144374-Assholes1.jpg

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

I'm with you on the vandalized part.....but I take serious exception to the "beat up" part (see attached pic) https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/laugh.gif

I find the a55hole part very hard to argue with.

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

Here is a picture of the carnage. There are scratches down both sides of the car and the hood.

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

Is the Bill Clinton??? I love it Sam... Now do it in<font color="blue"> blue </font>. Mark https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif


OK I'm tired of buttholes staring me in the face already !

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

HEY...!! Go easy Sam. The German guy in the middle of the picture is my Grandpaw Fritz! He was only following orders. He made some darn good dark brown Bavarian Lager as I recall. Pretty good apple strudel too!

Gezzz.....this is a rough crowd 'round here!

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see no problem with this man taking his beat up vandilized car and turning it into something that he could be proud of.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif This is still America isn't it?? If someone wants to paint his car PINK and write you guys are assholes on the doors he can.. Oh yeah by the way it is his car isn't it??? Mark https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
https://www.yenko.net/attachments/144374-Assholes1.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

Tracy,

I am inclined to agree with most of the guys here that have responded to you. Whether you are cloning a '69 ZL1 or a '02 ZL1, most of us would not look on it favorably. Now with that said, I know that you have stated that your goal is not to clone a '02 ZL1. If that is the case, what does it matter if the stripe that you "paint" on your Camaro is not exactly like the vinyl ones applied on the '02 ZL1's? I have a friend that liked the stripe on my ZL1 and he had it "painted" on his '02 SS along with the H.P. designation on the hood scoupe. Like you, he is not trying to pass his '02 SS off as a ZL1, he just liked the stripe on mine. Neither he nor the body shop (Smith Body &amp; Paint in Ankeny, Iowa) had my car to take measurements of the stripes from. They just did it from memory of seeing my car. You will note in the pic below that it turned out pretty darn good and he didn't try to duplicate my ZL1 as he has a different front grill, different wheels, etc.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...out2005059.jpg

Like others have said here, cloning one of these cars would be difficult at best. As previously stated, the cars are heavily documented, the engine parts and other components would be difficult to acquire and those of us that own these cars keep pretty good track of who presently owns them and when they are sold, who acquires them.

I would guess that if you would approach Steve Goodard (SMGCO) here in this thread who already responded to you, he might try to help you if he was assured your intent was not to clone. I have met and spoken with Steve personally and a nicer guy, you probably wouldn't be able to find. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif He lives in California and while I know that California is a big state, possibly he might not live too far away from you.

As I previously responded to you in LS1Tech.com, mine is kinda difficult for me to get to right now to take any digital photographs of. Again, look at photographs on the internet website's (this one as well as LS1Tech and also my club's website, www.midiowacamaroclub.com) and the various automotive magazines that have had articles about the '02 ZL1's in them (i.e., Chevy Rumble, GM High Tech Performance, Super Chevy, Chevy High Performance, Hot Rod Magazine, etc.). I am sure your bodyman/painter should be able to duplicate the stripe close enough for you to enjoy since you are not cloning a ZL1. My car, as well as several others, were featured in the April 2004 issue of Chevy Rumble. Contact the magazine and see if you can acquire a copy of it to show your painter.

Good luck with your project. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

There was a ZL1 style stripe in vinyl on ebay but I can't find it now.

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Tracy,

I am sure your bodyman/painter should be able to duplicate the stripe close enough for you to enjoy since you are not cloning a ZL1. My car, as well as several others, were featured in the April 2004 issue of Chevy Rumble. Contact the magazine and see if you can acquire a copy of it to show your painter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good advice J. D. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Clones, no matter if they are early or late model cars, always raise suspicions.

Re: 2002 ZL1 Pics & Paint Specs
 

http://www.3rdgendecals.com/camaross.htm
Just go to this site and tell them you want the Manta kit, but would like to have stencil kit instead of a decal kit.
That would make it really simple. The manta stripe package is identical to the ZL1's they also sell the hood insert too.