Gibb 68 COPO Nova
 

I moved this so the 68 Gibb COPO Nova has a thread dedicated to all things related to these unique and rare 68 COPO Nova. I want to thank Ray Morrison for his research and dedication to these cars and sharing his information these cars and being a great caretaker and historian.





I am the original owner of #37 of the Gibb COPO Nova's which originally was prepared by Dick Harrell. I had no idea my car was anything more than a Dick Harrell prepared 427-450 68 Nova with an experimental automatic? The article I read in the November 1968 issue was about the hot new 396-427 Nova available through authorized Chevrolet dealers. This article is the reason I came to ownership of one of these cars. This article did not disclose anything about Fred Gibb & his original purchase of the 50 copo's. Only in 1989, was I later to find out the rest of the history from Fred after I had a bug put into my ear that more background of this car might be worth checking? Should you Not have the engine code on the Gibb Novas or transmission codes, they are E3 that may be hard to find in any Chevrolet manual and the experimental 400 coded as CY. This special engine code I have wondered if that might have been arrived at because of the experimental 3 speed automatic? The E3 engine code brought up a lot of questions, but in talking with Fred before his passing, he told me all 50 COPO 9738 Nova's had that code. Ray

Looks like all were E3

William,
Your posting of the 1968 Chevrolet new vehicle inspection & adjustment schedule form is quite interesting. I first noticed just a couple differences in that of the #37 car. Build dates & a miner difference of having a 3 in the transmission code? By chance, You wouldn't have a shot of the green tag from this car? From the VIN number of posted schedule, according to my documents this would be from #49 of the 50? Helen Gibb wound up with the #50 car located in Gladstone, MO. The last 20 of this lot were paint coded EE being Fathom Blue. The engine code on #37 shows TO621E3.The transmission code on this car, however shows 68C100? The rear axle code shows BV0619G. The difference in the transmission code having the 68C103 I don't understand the being a difference? Long ago, research was done the found novas with this documentation, & the findings were that this 68C100 was the first part of the transmission serial number? I don't remember specially since a lot of the information on others was misplaced, car #37 had the lowest serial number of CY 1005 while the highest found was CY 1041. This seems to say that these Gibb cars transmissions had serial numbers ranging from CY 1001 To Cy 1050? William, this is just my theory, but have no proof? We know for sure, they were the first aromatics to be harnessed to a high performance, solid lifter engines in the first 2 weeks of July 1968. Documents from NHRA files, showing all 50 were built and delivered to Gibb Chevrolet by July 15.

William, I realize this thread was started mostly about the ZL-1's and not trying to high jack that information, but there is quite a bit of information about the COPO Nova's that need addressing for public interests that we can discuss about these once called "Mystery Nova's? Ray

What I think happened is the transmission plant initially muffed the date coding.

TH400 transmissions were date coded with the model year [68], application [C]. Numbering began at the chronological day of the calendar year [1/1/1967] the MY launch occurred. The numbering continued to increment as the MY crossed into the next calendar year; did not reset.

An early production TH400 trans for a 1968 Camaro would be 68C220, built August 8, 1967. A late production trans would be 68C543, built June 26, 1968.

The 396/TH400 Nova was a Spring 1968 launch. When the plant started building the new Nova TH400 transmissions, they incorrectly started the date code sequence as of January 1, 1968, not 1967. Common dates for the Gibb L78 Novas are 68C100 [April 9, 1968] 68C101, 68C102, 68C103, 68C104. Someone noticed and later cars had transmissions coded 68C534 [June 17, 1968].

Common dates for TH400 ZL-1 Camaros are 69X361, 69X362, 69X395, 69X407.

Don’t know about 1968 but for ’69, each transmission had a serial number with the sequence specific to the application, starting at 1000. Latest ’69 CX TH400 is CX-69-4285. A CC trans built at the same time is CC-69-25788.

Just for the record, based on POP data our db shows one L78 and one L72 Camaro built with CC transmissions. Some very early 69 L78s built at Van Nuys had CY transmissions.

I do have ZL-1s on the brain but it’s a Gibb Chevrolet thread. The L78/auto Novas are an important part of the story. Post whatever you wish!

Thanks for posting the information on the vehicle inspection sheets. It seems to get more interesting to compare the information that each contain? These posted sheets are a little different from that of mine and if you look at the one you posted on the #49 car, it too is a little different? I believe the 3 last posted are from cars #20, #22, & #24 if my records are correct? Back to the #49 Fathom Blue, the document showed C103 at the bottom. Now the next to last of these cars would have been built the 2nd week of July 1968? #37 was also built the 2nd week of July 1968? In the latest post of the documents, they were from a tripoli turquoise car #20, & 2 matador red cars #22 &#24? These would have been built the 1st week of July 1968? Notice that at the bottom of the inspection sheets of the first week cars and the 2nd week car? The #37 car has a 534 Julian date code on the Green Tag in pretty large numbers up by the rivet, yet has no reference of the 534 found on the inspection sheet? When I first saw the C103 on the blue car, after thinking on this awhile was wondering if it would be possible that the 103 could be lacking another digit as 103? for the serial number? Maybe this could be the reason they were known as Mystery Novas?

William, thanks for passing on the information you have on the Gibb cars & their history. I'm sure there is a lot yet to be learned about these Gibb cars, but comparing information is the one way to learn more? Too, I presume you have secured the documents prepared by Fred Gibb titled "To Whom It May Concern" on the Nova's? Just wondering if those owning the ZL-1's may have been presented with these, also?

Thanks for the reply about the individual Nova & ZL-1 documents. Your response kinda clears up something I was wondering about? I do have one that goes into detail about the #37 Nova down to the key numbers. Other things within this document addresses the 90 day warranty, the benchmark about being the first to inherit an automatic mated to a high horsepower, high rpm solid lifter engine, among other things & signed by Fred.

Back to the inspection schedule sheets, the differences I noticed at the bottom, just thinking these inspections may have been done by different individuals? The one I have was signed by Doyle Alston? If different people were responsible, could this affect what the difference might have on the way they were made up? If you don't care, take a look sometime at who signed off on these to see if they had the same signature?
Ray

Don't have them. Just got pics of the POP data.

Gibb COPO Nova
 

William,
I would like to apologize for the lack of understanding pictures you posted were of the POP’s and not the inspection sheets of those. I will attempt to send my copy to this thread? I have been trying to upload some material of mine that came with the car as new. Not computer knowledgeable, but hopefully this will attach?

Fred Gigg
 

Would Like to mention, the GM warranty on these Nova's was for only 90 days.The POP was used one time for a voltage regulator.

Fred Gibb COPO Nova’s
 

William has been providing a lot of interesting documents concerning the 9738 COPO Fred Gibb had GM build revised version of the Turbo 400. 50 of these were built coupled to the newly introduced 396-375 SS Nova. Documents from NHRA files show that 50 RPO L-78 Novas being sent from the Chevrolet Motor Division and signed by Paul Pryor notifying them that 50 of such Novas were built in a letter dated April 24, 1968. Another letter sent to NHRA states that 73 RPO L-78-375 RPO Novas were built and available by May 1. But it wasn’t until July 24, NHRA was notified that the 50 automatic Fred Gibb Novas were built and delivered to the Gibb Cheverolet dealership on July 15. Most know NHRA required 50 factory built units with the same identity to be available before they would set up a new competition class.

These documents I have were brought about by discussion about the E3 engine code. This has been a point of interest since early on when these cars were uncovered as something that was mainly hidden away without owners of the few in existence knowing the story behind them? The Fred Gibb dealership had advertised them in Drag World as "There're Here, Be one of the Few 50 396-375 Nova Automatics." Some realized the difference and bought them as such, yet didn't realize and know the story of what they really were?

It all started from this publication.

Gibb 68 COPO Nova
 

The above publication introduces the available options of the 396 & 427 Chevy11's in the November issue of PHR. The only hint of having an origin from the Fred Gibb stables, was the experimental automatic transmission coupled behind the L-78 or the L-72. Before this publication came out, Fred Gibb had advertised that 50 of the all new 396-375 horsepower Nova automatics were here in "Drag World," the publication of the American Hot Rod Association. The National Hot Rod Association were notified by GM and signed by Paul Pryor concerning that 50 L-78 Chevy11's with automatics were special factory built, being available & delivered to Fred Gibb Chevrolet by July 15, 1968.

In a previous post, is a newspaper clipping given by Helen Gibb, advertising the joining forces of Dick Harrell & the Fred Gibb dealership. Gibb was the Chevrolet dealer while Dick Harrell did the conversions & modifications that GM didn't offer.

Below are the advertisement ads that Fred Gibb exhibited in "Drag World upon the arrival of the 50 396-375 h.p. Chevy ll Hydramatics. Drag World came to those who were American Hot Rod Association members.

Excellent info Ray and William.Thanks for sharing this and the docs with us all.

68 Gibb COPO Nova
 

Thank you for the interest & also William for starting this thread. Many thanks to Steve S. for his assistance in the help he has given.

Concerning the ads that Fred Gibb displayed, these Novas were put on display before many of us, especially members of the " American Hot Rod Association."

Not knowing for sure, it is possible these ads were placed in NHRA's publication, also? The National Hot Rod Association had a membership publication of "National Dragster?" Knowing for sure that NHRA was considered because of their requirements being that 50 factory built units with the same specifications had to be documented before they set up a classification in their association.

Notice that these ads here again, these Novas Fred Gibb was advertising, were built with the newly available introduction of the 396-375 L-78. They do mention the introduction of having the combination of the L-78 with a Hydramatic & not a redesigned Turbo-400. Still nothing that they were a special batch requested just for Fred Gibb Chevrolet?


Most of us knew about the Turbo-400 that was available as a Regular Production Option (RPO) mated to different BB cars that were hydraulic lifter equipped. As was the case, the 396-375 h.p. Nova was now an RPO option that all Chevrolet dealers might not present unless you knew what to ask for? This was happening quite often back in those days, as magazine articles and the publications of the 2 major drag racing association's disclosing the newest options available.

Gibb 68 COPO Nova
 

From an ad from the Dick Harrell's Performance Center that promotes the 396 & 427 Chevy ll, there was no clue given about Fred Gibb's involvement? DH only gave information of the available option being up to 500 horsepower through exclusive Chevrolet Dealers. Fred Gibb is mentioned in this ad only as one of the exclusive dealers of the network Harrell was building toward his performance center located in Kansas City, MO. In this ad, listed many of the things he offered, including Turbo Hydros. He also mentions B & M transmissions. The network of dealers he had established at that time, is shown in this ad showing Courtesy Chevrolet being a large part of the network he had established at this point. Still nothing though to make one wonder anything other mentioned to suspect of the original origination of these Nova's being supplied by Fred Gibb? While being an original owner, knowing it only as a Dick Harrell Nova for some 20 plus years, there was still a lot I could learn about the history of the Nova and the experimental automatic transmission of the DH 427.

It's the assembly plant that messed it up, not the trans plant. The Gibb TH400 trans I have seen are stamped correctly, but the POP is in error.

TH400 Code Format: yyaddd
yy = last two digits of the model year
a = transmission application
C = L35 engine
E = L34 engine
X = L78/L72/ZL1 engine
ddd = Julian day of model year
68C493 = Day 127 or May 7, 1968 for L35 Nova / Camaro

SERIAL NUMBER

Ca-69-nnnn e.g. CX-69-3470

where:
C = Chevrolet
X = L78/L72/ZL1 engine
69 = model year
nnnn = 4-digit production sequence number

The new trans were coded 68Y534 with serial # CY-68-10xx, etc.
But what Willow Run put on the POP was the CC trans, which was the L35 trans, ignoring the CY. And despite the 534 day on the trans, they put 103 as the date. So 68C103 on the POP instead of 68Y534. Sometimes the plant used the correct day, but the POP still showed the wrong trans model. All of those POP above should be 68Y5xx.
I can't explain. It wouldn't be for tracking purposes, that was implicit with the new trans code. I noticed this before, but didn't have enough data to see a pattern. Thanks Bill!

Ray - does your car / #37 have the original trans tag?

Gibb 68 COPO Nova
 

I have an old polaroid picture that I looked back upon when taken while very new. In searching for any evidence of Fred Gibb's association, I thought it might have had the window sticker that might have still been there? I didn't find any nor can I remember one being there when driving it away from DHPC. I do remember hauling the air pump home in the trunk pulled because of the optional headers. Still nothing pointing toward Fred Gibb? At this point no reason to really look for anything other that what was already known? While putting the car back together, the need to freshen the original motor became an issue. Knowing that our engine builder was still in the former DHPC building doing competition work as he had done for DH before, it was taken back for him to refresh. Speaking with him and exchanging some DH documents, He mentioned that I should look into the car that the engine came from, that additional interesting information about documenting of the Nova was there to be found? Curiosity of what he had mentioned was beyond my understanding? The question was, where to start the search? He would not comment any further but his comment was the start for my looking for any information I could find?

Kurt S In answer to your question in the above thread, yes I do have the original tag and quite a bit of other transmission documentation that I would like to post later together. Thanks for the interest!

And I assume it's coded 68Y534 or such?

Fast forwarding a hint of what my original transmission code is and other details of it, which will contain the original torque converter & markings, is yet to come? At the point where I have been posting is my account of learning the mystery behind a DH prepared Nova I bought through Knowles Chevrolet after reading about the available 396-427 Nova with an experimental 3 speed automatic being offered by DHPC. As mentioned before, I did not know there would be more to the implication of Fred Gibb and the 50 he had previously advertised? Only when the engine was taken to be refreshed, was that in our discussion did he put the bug into my ear, that there was more information that I did not know about? Evidently he knew where DH & who the supplier was? The only information he gave me was, that a bag of worms might be opened with the origin behind the Nova and engine he was working on? That was still a mystery of what he was talking about, but later on with the memory of Fred Gibb's sponsorship and memory of the 68 Nova race car with DH's name on the back, the search would begin in hopes that Fred would have knowledge of what the mystery was to reveal?

Kurt, in getting back to your question of the code, I have a document before me now that I am looking at from Hydramatic, a Division of General Motors Corporation, Willow Run, Ypsilenti, Michigan, that was provided to me by Frank P. It contains the 69 400 transmission codes. While the information you have contained in your quest for knowledge into the transmissions the COPO Gibb Novas has some information associated with the transmission. The 534 you have is on my tag, but not part of the code. I believe this is the Julian Date of June? I also believe William may have the day in an earlier post? AS far as being the code, all doesn't match with mine. In this document from Hydramatic that Frank supplied to me, all the codes are of two letters, starting with applications associated with different versions of Chevrolet. CA onward to CX, with the CX being the last version indicated to be introduced or added on the date of 10-25-68. It also contains the codes for Rolls Royce (R), Opel (E) and Kaiser (K). The (C) referring to Chevrolet.

With a combined effort of several different people and their cars, of Course not to forget Fred Gibb And his Family, we have been able to uncover a lot of information about them . My intentions only are to walk through the process of how I would later find out about the mystery of the car I own? Just keeping in mind, I did not know for a long time, there was still a mystery that later would be revealed?

Yup, GM sold the TH400 to several outside companies.
Yes, the 534 is a modified Julian date - the 169th day, aka June 17.

The Gibb CY tags are atypical in their stamping, as you mention. The first part of the code is normally pre-printed on the TH400 tag, but these trans used prototype trans tags. The tags are generic so the preprinted part is missing, only the Julian date is stamped.
Maybe that is what caused the issue with the POPs - the clerk didn't know how to enter it on the POP since it wasn't on the tag in the normal format.
http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml#TH400

Gibb 68 COPO Nova
 

In staying with the timeline of my account into the mystery behind the comment the person made of further checking, of yet the unknown history that I knew of, just where could I start?

As before stated, being a member of AHRA, I remembered a Nova that ran in a National meet at KCIR with Fred Gibbs name clearly on the door along with Dick Harrell's name on the back fender. At this time, I also knew of the sponsorship that Fred was giving on the 69 Camaro fuel funny car? However, no thought of the Nova race car Fred Gibb was competing with, had anything that related toward my Nova?

In remembering the Nova, my first contact on the additional history Wes had mentioned, was to Fred Gibb. In talking with him, I started explaining to him the reason for my call. As I mentioned unto him about the 427 Dick Harrell Nova, his voice had a change of tone. He then asked me about what paperwork I had and if I would mail it to him? This was the first call, but "BINGO" it became relevent later on.

Gibb 68 Nova
 

At Fred's request, the paperwork was mailed to him upon his giving a current mailing address. Though in the first conversation with him, he didn't disclose much useful information, except his interest?

Is there a reason why you just don’t get on with it and tell your story?

Engine builder
 

Do you know if Wes Jerde is the mechanic who rebuilt your engine?

Just wanting to share some documents and things I was able to attain after starting the research on June 2, 1989. Trying to explain the preceding process of the connection to Fred Gibb. With Fred Gibb's record keeping and documents, there was a lot of information that we could learn from, that I hoped could be used & seen by those interested about Fred Gibb and some history about the COPO Novas?

Understand, this is not about me or my car, just trying to walk those who might be interested through the process of learning about the undisclosed information about these 50 Nova's special built for a specific purpose? It seems several owners didn't understand about the historical facts, even those who had purchased the cars from Fred Gibb Chevrolet?

Gibb 68 Nova
 

The second phone call to Fred resulted into his revealing of the vin matching up with the 50.
In this conservation he also used the term COPO.

Gibb 68 COPO Nova
 

A dealers Sheet discloses the information behind the mystery of the assigned COPO option number 9738, with the engine code of E3.

Gibb 68 COPO Nova
 

This document shows why the 50 9738 copo's were built with L-78 automatics

Fred Gibb COPO Nova
 

This is an update on the revised addition to the Turbo dated 7-12-68.

Interesting that they used 6 bolts to attach TC to the Flexplate.

Right, the torque these Big Block had it was extra safety in high perf applications.

Gibb 68 COPO Nova
 

The redesigned torque convertor of the Gibb Novas

Interesting design, nice picture.

For those who have not met Ray, here is his story from 1992! He ran his COPO Chevy II when new at the tracks.

page 2/3 of Rays article

So cool!!

Ray is an amazing person and a wealth of knowledge! :headbang:

Gibb 68 COPO Nova
 

Thanks, Bruce for chiming in as a moderator of this site. Staying away from the Gibb Nova's for this post, is only to reflect the appreciation for a place we can come together and disclose our experiences & disclose information from past years. We can think Steven Shauger for the devotion in maintaining such a place that all gear heads can share & hand down the things of interest that others might be able to reflect on for future use? As time rolls on, one can not benefit from information they have, forever? Thank you once again to Steven, Bruce & All the Moderators, & Members for maintaining a site that refresh's our minds where Chrysler, Ford, GM, including AMC, were in a war for dominance of the High Performance industry, & those dealerships that used the Central Office to produce cars that weren't available as Regular Production Options.

Well said Ray.

Gibb 68 COPO Nova
 

The assigned designation of the Gibb Novas for the redesigned (experimental) automatic transmission for the higher horsepower, higher torque, and higher rpm solid lifter engines was processed thru the Central Office Production Order (COPO) at the request of Fred Gibb Chevrolet. The assignment # of 9738. The green tag attached on the transmission shows the serial # as CY-68-1005. Fred Gibb stated these automatic transmissions were produced and used as the benchmark for the use of high performance applications.