Fender markings
 

this is marked on my lower fender extension on a 69 Camaro what does it mean

Rallye Green?

that's what I thought the only problem is this is a original paint cortez silver car

Is it a Norwood car?

If so, I would suggest you contact Phil Boris (sp???) on this site. "70 copo". He has some contacts with some of the Norwood employees who are still around. One of them might remember something like this.

I am almost certain I have seen similar markings on the inner side of fender extensions, but they were marked "copo". I am guessing it was a heads up to someone down the line that would see the car from the underside. Can't imagine what RG stood for. I have seen color call outs in crayon or grease pencil on firewalls (usually UNDER the black out), but not on fender extensions.

Lynn,

We all gravitate to the obvious. It looks to the eye at first as a proper "RG"

In reality once that lower valance section was assembled it became destined for placement on its unit, and as some of you know from reading the book I wrote on Norwood - the units were assembled in build sequence because after computer lock was achieved that is how all the feeder line conveyors matched all the component parts for a specific car and marking these parts was a non standardized method used by the workers to minimize rework in AGR later.

Now we are not seeing a neat and proper RG, but a very fast and sloppy 126

126=unit build order 126 for the day which means this car was built for a match up with the valance over on the chassis side just past body drop on first shift (days) very likely between 9-and 9:30 AM.

it is a norwood car I have seen some talk about seeing the same letters on rally sport option cars it is a 4 week of sept of 68 build

Or it could be the fender piercing code on the Body Broadcast Copy.

Have any Build sheets where RG is used to designate the fender piercing?

I am curious as to why you think RG would designate fender piercing on a completely separate sub assembly. Granted all components did end up for final "dog house" assembly on the second floor above body drop.

For the same reason COPOs have 427 written there-no emblem.

Not certain of what piercing entailed. If it is just fender script and engine ID there would be 12 codes. Z/28 may have been done differently as they have the same code [YA] as COPOs.

Fair enough. The lower extensions fit everything-ergo my question.

Is your car a RS/Z


The G is the single letter engine code for the 302 off of the Body Broadcast. And for some reason is on the front fender extension to indicatye piercing and the R is for the Rally sport emblem.

Style Trim Z28's I have seen have G M.

If I am not mistaken all of the CUI call out numbers use the same hole pattern so there would not be a need for indication of different numeral designations- (396 - 350 - 250 - 327 - 307), except the Z28 (Z28 emblem) and the COPO (nothing).

Production flow:

The fenders were unloaded and pierced in sheet metal then base coated and painted.

The extensions require only base coat and paint and then are oven dried and go directly to a feeder line.

The hood, Fenders, upper and lower valances, core support follow similar paths where the whole batch meets up together for the first time on the second floor. Directly below is the long line where body drop happens and that conveyor ends and front sheet metal assembly starts.


Given:

There is 20 feet between body drop and sheet metal drop on the final line and there is very, very, little time to do anything extra.

At sheet metal several sub assembly's are station built in advance and just in time to match the unit configuration.

One of these sub assemblies is the lower valance and the extensions.

The rest of the dog house is tied together on a jig using the core support as a main structure.

The lower valance along with the extensions now a sub assembly was bolted to the doghouse as a unit.


So then: For "Rally Sport and 302" (RG) to be relevant to a worker then the following would have to be in practice:

Workers were assembling to a large degree using option and trim combination acting in "expert based" assembly practices.
.
Workers built doghouse matches based upon trim and configuration recognition.

Agree or Disagree?

I am no expert on the assembly process. Sure looks like "RG" to me.

I have to REALLY use a lot of imagination to get "126' out of that. Not saying it isn't possible. Doesn't seem plausible.

Sometimes, we may have to admit we don't know why something was marked as it was.

Lynn,

I have to thank you for inviting me and the men of Norwood to the thread:

The acceptance of knowledge is a choice. Those who decline such knowledge simply will decide "not to know".

I would agree that what I am seeing is RG.

I think you are forcing a square peg into a round hole with the '126' theory, the 'RG' on a CSilver car is a factory screw up.....

Marlin,

It takes much more faith to call it RG when there is zero explanation to be made on one side of the argument other than the tired and frankly weak allegation of a “factory screw up”

So the same good folks that consistently argue against build sequence production pop up here in opposition once again.

the car is a rs/z28

Great! I am not going to participate further in the thread- but for what it is worth you have a credible and supported explanation.

Good luck with your car!

03d rs/z:

My x33 non RS Z

Frankly, I know nothing about "build sequence production" vs whatever else kind of production is being touted; and I really don't care to get sucked into whatever argument or ongoing debate there might be.

Clearly, we now have three fender extensions with markings that certainly don't APPEAR to be numerical. I don't think you can interpret that 2nd one as 612 or Bill's as 6111. That certainly does NOT in any way indicate that there wasn't build sequence production." Just means that for some reason a worker put some code under there.

All three have a G, so that would lead credence to the theory that it had something to do with emblem choice, as all three are Z/28 cars. Damn, both my fender extensions had small creases, and i replaced them both when I painted the car (also a Norwood Z/28). Makes me wish I had looked at them very closely before getting rid of them. They were original to the car. The fact that several have surfaced with "COPO" scrawled on the inside also supports that theory (no front emblem).

The R also makes sense as Rally Sport, as that RS emblem is virtually impossible to install once the front clip is on the car, as is the Camaro emblem.

So, what in the world would the "M" be there for on Bill's car?

Doesn't Lloyd (Edgemontvillage) have a survivor RS 69 Z?

How about taking a look?

One 69 COPO I restored had ...."427M."...on the extension, picture has been posted before. Still can't figure out the meaning of the M.
And I agree with the 126 theory JMO

Mike
Just found this

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthre...nder+extension

This is a late 1969 X33 fender...Joe

So with the data we have G = Z28 R = Rally Sport and M= Style trim without/RS


Obviously this is a very small sampling and much more data is needed so lets see where the data points take us. So far we only have data for COPO and Z28 .


We should set up a spreadsheet and include SS396, SS350, base model. Or how about COPO, x11, x22,x33,x44,x55,x66,x77 . Just a thought so the data is organized....

Pics I took of the low mile RS Zl1

Called another Retiree this morning. His read was as follows. Sequencing # was used but was dependent on who was working the station. His recollection was under the upper valance for the number.

His take on what he is seeing here:

RG= Rally Group

GM= General Match

427M = Match to 427 doghouse assembly.

Likely also 350/396M and RG used there as applicable as well.

The piercing codes either start with X or Y, e.g. XC.
While the COPO cars often have 427 in this location, I don't recall seeing a piercing code here, fwiw.
I have seen three letters written here, G, M, and R (and 427).
The G was a Z28. M has been non-RS. R has been RS. G & M have been exclusive of each other. Don't have any notes on SS cars.

(I hate when I miss that there's a second page of posts!)

Box 104 on the BBC is for the fender emblem.

Very limited data indicates C for 307, E for 396, F for 350, G for Z/28, H for 327. Wonder why COPOs had 427 written there as they would have the same piercing and no engine ID emblem as the base 230" six cylinder.

Also, COPOs and Z/28s [non RS] have the same YA piercing code. Non HP cars are XA.

The scribbling on the extension may be tribal knowledge.

Here's another. This was a true SS with style trim w/o R/S. Fender run number 37. I don't know the engine size. Fender is damaged there...Joe

Couple more examples:

The top one is mine from a Copo m21, 721 I restored
Mike

From this photo in the CRG assembly process article, the buck-built front end was assembled with much of the grille components and headlights, so the build configuration including paint color, any striping, std or RS grille and headlights and hood style would be significant during that sub-assembly, as well as the fender piercing already discussed.
The ident number can be seen on the driver side of the firewall, so a corresponding number on the front end seems logical.
http://www.camaros.org/images/assemb...embly-clip.jpg
Image reposted from the CRG site.

Thanks Mike, I saved those pictures a while ago but lost my notes on their source. Was it a non-RS car, and if so, did it have style trim?

FYI this is not just on 69’s. Have a few 68’s with R6. I originally thought it was for 396 RS but that is out the window.

If no one else has a spreadsheet going I’ll look for mine in the am.

Yes, non RS and Z21 trim.
I miss typed in my other post. 721, but ment. Z21

My memory is failing me. It’s 6S and this was from a 68 SS/RS 396 convertible.

Thanks Bill! I got caught up in looking for fender extension pictures that I forgot this.
C - 307/327
D - L22 L6
E - 396
F - 350
G - Z28
H - 327 (no idea why this car isn't C)

And:
M - Z21
R - RS/Z22

And there's your 69 decoding ring. ;)