ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

#1 at Mecum Spring

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

I have pics of that car from Super Chevy 1990. Bill Porterfield
owned it then and on the way to Indy had a trailer fire and the car was pretty heavily damaged. I kinda knew him at the time and helped him get the car out of the trailer and assess the damage. We got the hood off the car and fixed a couple of things and DID get it running. He drove it around the pits a little, but for safety's sake did not race it then. His arm was burned, but he was hurt more emotionally than physically. I think Bill Porterfield (a retired Oldsmobile engineer) deserves a whole lot of credit for bringing to light not only the car here, but the Camaro ZL-1 in general. At that time, around the late '80s into the early '90s those "Aluminus Raticus" as he used to call them were not as widely known as they are now.
I'm curious to see what this car sells for. It has had a long and storied career; not only as the very first ZL-1, but as a many-time record holder in several classes and sanctioning bodies.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Bill Porterfield IS the reason we know the ZL-1 Camaro VINs.

The story was recounted in John Hoopers 1969 Camaro book. Bill bought what he believed was the #3 ZL-1 Camaro March 1981. He had contacts at Chevrolet and was able to speak with Vince Piggins. The NHRA required Chevrolet to establish a production run of at least 50 cars and after some digging Vince was able to find the file with the VINs. A few months later Super Chevy magazine printed the list with a typo or two.

Vince Piggins passed away in 1985 and I'm sure all of the other documentation in his posession reverted to Chevrolet and was destroyed. Timing is everything.

Bill is the unofficial Gibb Chev historian and is the source for dealer paperwork for the 50 Gibb ZL-1s.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

----Always had fun at the track when Bill was there. I was lucky at Milan as he broke and I won, and then lucky again at Quaker City as he broke before we had a chance to run. As you can imagine NO.1 was a bit temperamental. He was contracted to run Ronnie Sox (RIP) in Dale Smiths (RIP) beautiful 68 Sox and Martin Cuda and broke in testing. The promoter came to me to stand in for Bill, but I was at least a second off Ronnies best time. We settled at him giving me 3/4 of a second but Ronnie got impatient and stood the Cuda on the bumper. When he came down he holed the oil pan. It didnt seem to matter as he tried to chase me down anyway pissing oil the whole way, but missed by a car and a half. Never thought Id ever race Ronnie much less beat him no matter the circumstance, so I was a happy camper that day! Bill P was fearless with NO.1 though and would stand that thing on the casters. Those old style wheelie bars scared me every time I watched him. The car looked like a pogo stick out of the hole. Sorry for running on, but the mention of Bills name brought back some very good memories......Bill S

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Cool stuff Bill!

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

William, maybe you need to ask the Gibb family as to where the ZL-1 records came from. Also ask them about the 68 COPO nova records. The winter of 1989 I stopped at Fred Gibbs house.
He and Helen invited me into there home, a complete stranger.
They talked with me over two hours about the cars. I tolded Fred I think I knew of a 68 Gibb nova. Fred told me he didn't have the records but he gave them to Bill Portfield. The next day I was called by Bill and he finally told me it was one of the cars & he wanted to know what my plans were. I bought the car in 1989 and that car is owned by Annie Hartweg. Bill had never found the records Fred had them all the time. Also when the Novas records were released. I think the article states they were from Helen Gibb. Please check me facts out with the gibb Family.
Kim Howie

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Every factory document we have for ZL-1 #4 came from Porterfield. Within the last year he contacted me about acquiring the original Shippers' copy and a few other docs. He recently stated to me in an email that he still has docs for over 40 of the Gibb ZL-1s. All the docs for the recently sold #9 ZL-1 came from him. I know nothing about the COPO Novas.

I never had any contact with Fred Gibb or his family. When Doug Martz owned #4 he visited the Gibb family. As a former Chevrolet dealer he was also warmly received. We had a repro Shippers' Copy for #4 which he graciously inscribed "Thank You Fred Gibb 2-4-89." Later in the year, at the SC-Indy ZL-1 reunion, Porterfield handed me a bankers' box full of Gibb Chevrolet paperwork. There can be no question he was/is in possession of the records.

#4 was one of the ZL-1s returned to Norwood, re-invoiced to Hauser Chevrolet Bethlehem PA with #43. They couldn't sell it either and had Sabatine's Speed Shop race it for the 1970 NHRA season. Sabatine returned it with a 402 and Hauser put it on the used car lot April 1971 for $2695.

I know all this because Dan Palchanes spent hours on the phone and in the library copying microfiche newspaper classifieds. He also acquired vintage racing photos of the car and an NOS Hauser dealer emblem. He put us in contact with the guy who bought it used from Hauser. He gave us all of this information; never asked for a penny.

There are few people in the hobby like Dan.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

I think you have missed my point I am saying the records came from the Gibb Family not Piggins.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

My understanding is the ZL1 list came from Piggins also. Wouldn't Fred have only had a list of cars he ordered ?

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

I thought the majority of the numbers came from Gibb, but when BP looked for ZL-1 #3 (the Berger car) is was not on the list, and that is when BP contacted VP, who located paperwork for the non Gibb cars.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

The story is in Hooper's book, as told by Porterfield.

Vince Piggins had the ZL-1 VIN list that ended up in Super Chevy. That's where BP got the lead on Gibb Chev. Gibb only knew about and had docs for his 50 ZL-1s.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Tom,that is what I understood also 50 cars from Gibb & 19 from Piggins

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Porterfield is who I got the majority of the original paperwork that I had for ZL-1 number 34. It was one of the cars re-invoiced to another dealer. The car has the original shipper from GM to Gibb with the options and pricing, the delivery papers and even the return papers when car was returned to Norwood Ohio Plant. The car was eventually reinvoiced and sold through Govan's Chevrolet in Baltimore MD. The shipper showed a list price over $7000. I also obtained the MSO from Maryland when the car finally sold for 4800 bucks in June of 1970. Porterfield obtained all the original paperwork on the 50 Gibb cars from Fred before he died. He also had Fred sign a letter about each individual car. He still had all the paperwork for all the Gibb ZL-1's except for the cars which the owners already obtained the paperwork from him.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Bill still has paperwork for Gibb ZL1's if anybody has one of the Gibb 50. The ZL1 world would not be where it is without his tenacity.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

"TENACITY"......I will refrain, You all go ahead on.
Have a one....Glenn

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

AMEN

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Wow, this is an interesting thread. I didn't know that BP had all the docs of the ZL1's. So let me get this straight. Frad Gibb GAVE them to BP? Is BP charging money for the docs? Also, are there ZL1 owners out there who have not bought their paperwork from BP?

I know the "holders of the documents" is a VERY touchy issue. People like Vince Emme, Warren D, and Bill P. that have all this paper for these supercars that essentially they didn't pay for but are charging owners for. It's definitely an ethical issue for sure. It sucks for people like Helen Gibb who are still around. Someone could possibly be profiting from documents that technically belonged to them.

Then you have people like Joel Rosen. He charges an arm and a leg for a letter, BUT he is the one that personally built the cars. I personally believe that he has the right to do so.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

I know Annie has never charged anyone for any of the Fred Gibb dealer prep sheets she has given away. I don't think that ever crossed her mind as it was never about the money but more about the reunion of paperwork and car.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hvychev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, this is an interesting thread. I didn't know that BP had all the docs of the ZL1's. So let me get this straight. Frad Gibb GAVE them to BP? Is BP charging money for the docs? Also, are there ZL1 owners out there who have not bought their paperwork from BP?

I know the &quot;holders of the documents&quot; is a VERY touchy issue. People like Vince Emme, Warren D, and Bill P. that have all this paper for these supercars that essentially they didn't pay for but are charging owners for. It's definitely an ethical issue for sure. It sucks for people like Helen Gibb who are still around. Someone could possibly be profiting from documents that technically belonged to them.
</div></div>

It is my understanding Bill represents the interests of the Gibb family in transacting the documents. While they may be in his posession he does not own them.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

My mistake-Bill does not represent the Gibb family. He is the owner of the documents.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Did he buy them from the Gibb's then? Just wondering... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img]

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

We have NEVER charged ANYONE for anything. That includes companies that made diecast models, any kind of paper work on ANY Fred Gibb sold cars. Diecast Model companies gave my Mom some models as she told them she didn't want ANYTHING, just happy they wanted to keep Dads name out there in a positive way. Anything anyone has gotten from us, as far as paperwork were NEVER charged, and we have looked up VIN NUMBERS for free, because we were happy to do it, and to help them with their documentation. We never charged ANYONE that my Mom gave permission to use the Fred Gibb Shield/Logo either. Happy they wanted to use it, and appreciated them asking for permission.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Thanks Nancy

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

It's really nice to have folks (also legends) in our hobby that just love cars and want to help other enthusiasts. Thanks Gibb family!

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nancy Gibb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We never charged ANYONE that my Mom gave permission to use the Fred Gibb Shield/Logo either. Happy they wanted to use it, and appreciated them asking for permission. </div></div>

I can attest to the veracity of that statement.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Me too Jeff. I've reproduced the Shield logo a number of times for various individuals, and ALWAYS with the understanding it was done free gratis. Helen &amp; Nancy knew I was doing this and NEVER asked for a dime so why would I charge someone? If ANYONE should benefit financially for the use of this logo it should be the Gibb family. Legal issues aside, .... it's just common courtesy.

But back to Bill, .... I received a package a year or so back and the return address was Bill Porterfield. Inside was the original carbon copy of the Dealer Inspection Sheet for my Chevelle. Bill had attached a note asking if this was for my car, and if not to please return it. It was in fact for my car so I sent Bill an email thanking him and asking is I could compensate him in any way. No reply. Strangely, I also have the Original top page of that same document that was in the glove box when I took delivery of the car. Pretty [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cool.gif[/img].

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

The Gibb family has been very good to me, I have never been asked to pay for anything by these people. But one person has been a pain in the A$$ on my car.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Bruce, I don't know if Bill P bought the paper work from the Gibbs. I also don't know if Bill P charges for the paper work ,but I do know he has made a lot of money indirectly from the paper work.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kim_Howie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> But one person has been a pain in the A$$ on my car. </div></div>

and that as well as other acts in my opinion have done more to hurt that families name than any of us could have ever done. Us putting signage on our trailers, front doors and walls of our shops, decals on the windows of our cars, etc, has done nothing but promote the families name and bring it more to the forefront of this hobby. By charging for every single thing that is put out there or threatening a lawsuit, people have said screw it and no longer will promote some of those names. It is very sad. I remember when I joined this site over 10 years ago I barely knew anything about many of these legends and because of the members here I am now very well informed. I do not know anyone personally who is capitalizing off of any one of these legends names but I know several that are proud to display others on their walls, fenders, doors, trailers, etc. Many a friendship has been made because of the reunion and promotion of these legends and many more have been lost over the frivolous bickering and lawsuits from others. It is time it stops and we bring our attention back to where it was originally intended. Dennis Hartweg has rolled over many times in his grave (urn) over some of the petty things that have taken place over the last several years.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Exactly.... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kim_Howie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bruce, I don't know if Bill P bought the paper work from the Gibbs. I also don't know if Bill P charges for the paper work ,but I do know he has made a lot of money indirectly from the paper work. </div></div>

Let’s step into the time machine and travel back to 1981. I was there so I know the full story, not the 5% being related here.

Due solely to the persistence of Bill Porterfield all 69 1969 Camaro ZL-1 VINs were published in Super Chevy magazine, not just the 50 that were supposedly built. A certain individual [not BP] wisely saw a business opportunity and ran with it. With an investment of time, money and effort over a period of 15 years he was able to acquire a dozen [or more] ZL-1 Camaros. These were all very profitably resold. To him it was a business, not a hobby-so be it. Many of those cars went on to be restored and again very profitably resold many times over. Once the market was established, other ZL-1s were located, some in excellent original condition. Some of those have been also been very profitably resold. ZL-1s that have been under the radar for many years will undoubtedly prove to be a wise investment when they reach the market.

BP first acquired the #3 ZL-1 early in 1981, prompting a call to Vince Piggins. That set events in motion that were in large part responsible for the ZL-1 body of knowledge as we know it today. In 1988 BP acquired the #1 ZL-1 Camaro. With a large investment of time and money the car was returned to racing trim. This was done with the approval and blessing of Fred Gibb. There are many photos of them with the restored car. Fred had been approached by others seeking documents over the years but chose to retain them. Recognizing that BP was an enthusiast and not a profiteer that was just going to flip his old dealership race car, Fred gave him much of the factory documentation for the 50 ZL-1 Camaros he ordered. Fred Gibb knew the value of these documents and understood they would be sold to help offset the costs of the restoration and maintenance of the #1 car. For the next 18 years BP campaigned and displayed the #1 car, promoting the Gibb name. The car has been featured in several magazines. Today Fred Gibb Chevrolet is known to virtually every Chevy enthusiast and BP deserves much of the credit. He no longer owns either; #3 has been re-sold a few times since and #1 is at Mecum Indy this week.

The ZL-1 Camaro VIN list has been public knowledge for over 30 years. ZL-1 Camaro ownership is an exclusive group; exclusivity is never cheap and no one needs the documents. If you chose to buy them to perhaps enhance the value of the car that’s your choice. It must work; the #9 car just sold at B-J for an astonishing $451,000. The small amount of money paid for the documents pales in comparison.

Several people, not just the few names we all know, have made lots of money dealing in ZL-1 Camaros.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Is Joe Z. the current owner of ZL-1 #1?

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

I sent the photos I took of that car from the &quot;Fire Weekend&quot; to a member here to be posted. Hopefully, they will be here shortly. I helped Bill Porterfield sort through the damage and we did get the car running at that event (Super Chevy Indy 1991). It definitely wasn't close to being safe to race. When the pictures are posted you'll see what I mean and appreciate the time, effort, and money it took to return the car to it's present condition.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: William</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kim_Howie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bruce, I don't know if Bill P bought the paper work from the Gibbs. I also don't know if Bill P charges for the paper work ,but I do know he has made a lot of money indirectly from the paper work. </div></div>

Let’s step into the time machine and travel back to 1981. I was there so I know the full story, not the 5% being related here.

Due solely to the persistence of Bill Porterfield all 69 1969 Camaro ZL-1 VINs were published in Super Chevy magazine, not just the 50 that were supposedly built. <span style="font-weight: bold"> A certain individual [not BP] wisely saw a business opportunity and ran with it. With an investment of time, money and effort over a period of 15 years he was able to acquire a dozen [or more] ZL-1 Camaros. These were all very profitably resold. To him it was a business, not a hobby-so be it.</span> Many of those cars went on to be restored and again very profitably resold many times over. Once the market was established, other ZL-1s were located, some in excellent original condition. Some of those have been also been very profitably resold. ZL-1s that have been under the radar for many years will undoubtedly prove to be a wise investment when they reach the market.

BP first acquired the #3 ZL-1 early in 1981, prompting a call to Vince Piggins. That set events in motion that were in large part responsible for the ZL-1 body of knowledge as we know it today. In 1988 BP acquired the #1 ZL-1 Camaro. With a large investment of time and money the car was returned to racing trim. This was done with the approval and blessing of Fred Gibb. There are many photos of them with the restored car. Fred had been approached by others seeking documents over the years but chose to retain them. Recognizing that BP was an enthusiast and not a profiteer that was just going to flip his old dealership race car, Fred gave him much of the factory documentation for the 50 ZL-1 Camaros he ordered. Fred Gibb knew the value of these documents and understood they would be sold to help offset the costs of the restoration and maintenance of the #1 car. For the next 18 years BP campaigned and displayed the #1 car, promoting the Gibb name. The car has been featured in several magazines. Today Fred Gibb Chevrolet is known to virtually every Chevy enthusiast and BP deserves much of the credit. He no longer owns either; #3 has been re-sold a few times since and #1 is at Mecum Indy this week.

The ZL-1 Camaro VIN list has been public knowledge for over 30 years. ZL-1 Camaro ownership is an exclusive group; exclusivity is never cheap and no one needs the documents. If you chose to buy them to perhaps enhance the value of the car that’s your choice. It must work; the #9 car just sold at B-J for an astonishing $451,000. The small amount of money paid for the documents pales in comparison.

Several people, not just the few names we all know, have made lots of money dealing in ZL-1 Camaros.
</div></div>

William, thanks for the informative history lesson. Even as a supercar enthusiast I was unaware of the details surrounding the legacy of the ZL1 resurgence in the 1980s. As you said, it's a very exclusive niche of this hobby, one scores of us could not be able to be a part of. With that said, I am going to assume that the individual you describe in bold above has a last name that begins with C. Just so I can learn more about this part of the hobby, was he just &quot;given&quot; the list early on by BP or how did he learn the ZL1 vin numbers? Was there a list passed around in those early days like the Yenko inventory sheets were pre Internet? I am assuming that Mr. C. obtained the list and got to work looking for lost ZL1's before the list was published in Super Chevy Magazine. This is just very interesting in a general historical way to me and I would like to learn more. Thanks for your insight.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

By the way, I have always thought and said that I feel that ZL1 #1 is THE most historically significant supercar in existance.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Although true they may of not charged anyone to use the Fred Gibb name/logo, if they decide they dont want you to have it anymore their lawyer will be sending you a letter stating so and then it could REALLY cost you, and I wonder why the car show name changed? Hmmmm, glad i'm over here on the west coast......

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

C first saw the list when Super Chev printed it. Everyone had the same opportunity so no one can cry foul. [It should be pointed out that ZL-1 values at that time were laughable. The #55 car, still one of the finest unrestored '69 Camaros, was advertised in the mid-'80s for $65,000]. Unlike today searching for the cars at that time was easy and casual. Wasn't all that hard to find someone with NCIC access; I had maybe 15-20 names and was able to locate one of them. There's maybe 10-12 that have never shown any registration for a variety of reasons and I'm sure a few of those still exist.

I jumped in here to set the record straight. BP has been involved with the Fred Gibb/ZL-1 story for nearly 25 years. No one has done more but several have earned more. He was awarded the documents and may do with them as he pleases.

While I'm at it Mr C also dug up quite a bit of ZL-1 info and did share it for some time. Both he and BP were helpful in our restoration of the #4 car.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Very interesting info, thanks William.

It must have been a glorious time back in those early days of rediscovery, history was being unraveled every step of the way. I'm sure it wasn't nearly as cut throat as it is now due to the lack of players involved and info available. Most importantly, the value of these cars wasn't even close to what it is today which made the stakes lower. It must have been quite the experience tracking one of these old ZL1 owners down and going to their house to see that garage door lifted to unveil a lost treasure! Wow!

By the way, as you stated, Mr. C. had just as fair as a chance as anyone out there to go out and capitalize on the ZL1 phenomenon. You have to admit, he was an innovator! Only in America! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif[/img]

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

Garage? By the time I tracked down #4 it was parked on a lawn in Kuna, Idaho with a For Sale sign in the window. They were happy to get rid of it. The previous owner had bracket raced it at Firebird Raceway. There were several other Camaros competing there at the time, most notably another Cortez Silver ZL-1, the #13 car. Neither owner knew.

Around 1983 a friend called to say he spotted a nasty '69 at a repair shop near his home. It was on a battery charger so the hood was up and he noticed the BB heater. Turned out to be the #38 car, a Fathom Green auto. All there other than the engine. I should have bought it. Just wasn't that big of a deal at the time. Think he sold it for $2200.

Re: ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17
 

NRA4EVER.....I know when YOU FIRST posted here, your ADDRESS was ILLINOIS, MAYBE EVEN IN THE LAHARPE,ILLINOIS area. YOU need to STOP THE LIES and TELL THE TRUTH, &quot; THE FRED GIBB MEMORIAL CAR SHOW&quot; NAME WAS DROPPED/CHANGED BECAUSE KENNY BROWN AND BOB LIONBERGER, MY DAD'S FORMER SON IN LAW OF 6 YEARS, SENT US, HELEN, CONNIE, AND NANCY GIBB A MEAN EMAIL WHICH I WILL BE GLAD TO POST HERE, SAYING &quot;THEY&quot; WERE CHANGING THE NAME BECAUSE OF PROBLEMS BETWEEN THE BOB LIONBERGER FAMILY AND THE GIBB FAMILY. NOW IF YOU NOTICE, IT IS KENNY BROWN AND &quot;BOB LIONBERGER&quot; THAT ARE RUNNING THE NEW SHOW. THEY ARE TELLING PEOPLE THAT IT WAS CHANGED ALSO BECAUSE MY MOM, HELEN GIBB WOULD NO LONGER ALLOW THEM TO USE THE FRED GIBB NAME!THAT IS A LIE, AND SOOOO SAD THAT IT ALL STEMS FROM BOB LIONBERGER THINKING MY MOM SHOULD GIVE HIM SOME OF HER LAND. I HAVE REMAINED QUIET SINCE THIS ALL BEGAN LAST AUGUST. PEOPLE ARE ONLY HEARING ONE SIDE, BUT MAYBE POSTING THE EMAIL SENT TO US, AND A FEW PHOTOS OF THE LAND BOB LIONBERGER THOUGHT WE OWED HIM WILL HELP STOP THE LIES! WE HAVE GIVEN, INCLUDED, TREATED BOB LIONBERGER AS A SON-IN-LAW, AND BROTHER SINCE 1967 UNTIL LAST AUGUST WHEN HE DIDN'T WANT US TO PUT UP A MATCHING PIECE OF WHITE VINYL FENCE TO FINISH OUR LAND BOUNDRIES, BECAUSE HE WAS GOING TO TAKE THAT PIECE OF LAND ANYWAY, AND WITH THE LAYOUT OF HIS NEW GARAGE, HE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET IN HIS NEW GARAGE THROUGH OUR FENCE! WE HAVE RESURVEYED, RECHECKED PAPERWORK AT THE COUNTY COURTHOUSE, BUT HE STILL THREATENS MY 89 YEAR OLD MOTHER WITH A LAWSUIT! HE SAID HE LOVED MY DAD AND OUR FAMILY, BUT SURE HAS HAD A FUNNY WAY OF SHOWING THAT......SHAME ON YOU BOB LIONBERGER, DAD MAY BE GONE, BUT HE STILL IS IN HEAVEN WATCHING WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO HIS FAMILY. I WON'T TAKE THE TIME TO LIST EVERTHING IN THE EMAIL, BUT WE WERE PRETTY MUCH TOLD IF WE CAME TO THE SHOW OR IF IT REMAINED THE 14TH ANNUAL &quot;FRED GIBB MEMORIAL CAR SHOW&quot;, THAT NO ONE WOULD COME OR SPONSOR CLASSES. SOMEDAY, THE TRUTH WILL COME OUT, BUT IT IS JUST SO SAD THAT SOMEONE WE ALWAYS TREATED LIKE FAMILY AFTER A DIVORCE EVEN, DECIDED HE WAS THE ONE TO CARRY ON THE FRED GIBB NAME AND HISTORY. SORRY TO HAVE POSTED ALL OF THIS, BUT I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THE LIES AND BASHING BY SOME, OF &quot;FRED GIBB&quot;, AND HIS LEGACY.