Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

Im new here and found this place out of curiosity from a 68 camaro I purchased, I have had quite a few muscle cars over the years mostly Chevy and Mopar, I ran a wanted ad looking for a 67-68 Camaro, I sold a few cars and decided I wanted to build a first gen F, well I decided I wanted go aginst the norm and build a 7 or 8 and stay away from the popular 69, well after looking at many cars I came across this 68 price was so so, but not a real rusty car. Car is a 6 cyl car by the vin, here is the start of the kickers, has a aluminum headed 68 427 in it, 12 bolt BE code (also 68) M22 havent found any numbers on it, 2 pc old school lakewood bell housing where the bottom un bolts, has 68 steel wheels on front with bias BS front tires 700-14 MH slicks ont the back M over H old style no numbers on wheels but 15-850 slicks, old style 2pc traction bars but a straight bar not tube, Here is the wierd It does have a stinger hood on a steel frame???? car is original red with black interior and no gauges hurst shifter no console kinda plane jane. now another kicker has a Bill Thomas race cars sticker on the bottom of the trunk lid, a paper sticker yellowed and torn??? car is a 6cyl vin is it just some guys old race car it did things like this ever happen, I purchased the car with no title just a bill of sale, I'm currently working with the state on a tilte so I do not want to post any vin at this time, I'm fine with the price I paid for the car just on the parts, but after taking it apart and looking at it I start to question???? This is not a restored car this is a POS hence the name beater68427 no matter what comes of this car I'm going to restore it from what I purchased not my original intentions.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

Sounds cool... you DO know we need to see some pics, right?

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

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Sounds cool... you DO know we need to see some pics, right?

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I will I will.. I have had the car for 6 months now but not real worried, but also concerned on the no title sale, I have paid the fees and also the proper foot steps, the car was a east coast built car but out of orange county, I have found myself quite fond of this place so no matter what the car is you will see pics and vin just want the legal docs first... I paid 12000.00 for the car it is quite clean the engine is in real bad shape, I was going to just stick another engine in it for now and have some fun with it, and rebuild and "restore" the one that came with the car, there was no intake and carb on it when I got it, alot of dmaage to the engine is rust, It did spin #1 & 2 rod heads seem good, but alot of cheese growing in the cylinders and the seats need changed 4 valves wouldnt even close when I pulled the heads off... now just time for the paperwork from the state and I will be happy...

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

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Sounds cool... you DO know we need to see some pics, right?

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i was going to say the same thing............ https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

Didnt somebody start a thread on a car like this around 5 years ago?? Somebody has to remember. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

Jeffrey, is the engineblock painted yellow ?

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

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Jeffrey, is the engineblock painted yellow ?

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Interesting you say that, the block is faded black now but you can see it was orange originally then yellow now light cruddy coat of black, the heads are bare aluminum, looks like it has had its share of abuse, I know I can save the heads but a little worried on the short block, I really do not have the money to build a new engine now well I have enough for a new coat of paint on the car or build a engine, I think (when I get a title) I will do a clean up on the car and put the other bigblock from my impala in it for now and have some fun. I started to get curious on the car, but reading some of the threads here, all the real cars were built from SS 396 cars, I think it was some guys street-bracket car form that era. I will get some pics up when I get the title back from the state, I am a paranoid sort and bought it from a younger guy and just a little worried, so far it came black clean no wants no warrants so I'm sure its all good, just me being paranoid.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

Whttps://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gifW...this car sure sounds interesting so far!.
Can you report what stampings are on the block?.
And before going too far w/ the title, have you confirmed the hidden Vins do match the 6 Cyl. tag?.

Welcome Jeff...your L34 factory 4:10 '67 rag sounds great too!.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif
~ Pete

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I like real cars best...the REAL real ones!

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

[ QUOTE ]
Whttps://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gifW...this car sure sounds interesting so far!.
Can you report what stampings are on the block?.
And before going too far w/ the title, have you confirmed the hidden Vins do match the 6 Cyl. tag?.

Welcome Jeff...your L34 factory 4:10 '67 rag sounds great too!.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif
~ Pete
The Chevelle is a good car full docs makes it nice also, The vin is a 6 on the camaro and all seem to match on body, thats where im confused, the block has been surfaced years ago, no numbers there casting is a 5439, the rear seems to have 4:56 or 4:88 gears in it now and some previous weld marks on the tubes, I will need to do some cleaning there, and a gear change I think I'm going to put 3:73's in it, as far as the body it is very clean no undercoat car, very small amount of rust in quarters, Floor pans are great bottom of car is still black and quite clean, I was just going to give it a detail with whats there, and touch up the black in a few spots no dents or dings on the car, has had one repaint, There are no marking on the car at all no Camaro no engine size no marking at all did have a black stripe on hood plus Ribbon around nose? also manual steering manual brakes. What ever the car is I am just going to mildly restore it to what someone had made it.

--------------------
I like real cars best...the REAL real ones!

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Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

Did you say it was an "east coast"/Orange County built car? Any idea when it went west? Just as an aside, the whole "yellow engine" thing is way overblown IMO. Yes, both Nickey & Bill Thomas might have painted an engine or engines yellow, but, so did many others back in the day. One yellow engine on the cover shot of one of the first Nickey/Bill Thomas cars has created a false idea that all of them were yellow.

You are correct in the idea that, most of the conversions were done on V-8 cars at least, and, L78 cars once available. That doesn't mean that someone didn't take a six cylinder car to Bill Thomas for work to be done at some point. If you can prove that, it would be a very cool car.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did you say it was an "east coast"/Orange County built car? Any idea when it went west? Just as an aside, the whole "yellow engine" thing is way overblown IMO. Yes, both Nickey & Bill Thomas might have painted an engine or engines yellow, but, so did many others back in the day. One yellow engine on the cover shot of one of the first Nickey/Bill Thomas cars has created a false idea that all of them were yellow.

You are correct in the idea that, most of the conversions were done on V-8 cars at least, and, L78 cars once available. That doesn't mean that someone didn't take a six cylinder car to Bill Thomas for work to be done at some point. If you can prove that, it would be a very cool car.

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As far as engine color, I take that with a grain of salt, the engine has been painted a multitude of times and once was yellow over orange, I did not think color ment anything I figured they were all orange, I'm sure the car is just someones old hot rod, it has had a serious time of racing but never a cage, the vin shows it was a Norwood car, and production number seems late, but has black CA plates hence 68-69 last reg shows 78 on them. nothing after that nothing in system. The glass over steel stinger hood made me wonder where it is from? and some of the items on the car, The guy I had purchsed it from seemed to have "Chemical Problem" and made we a little leary on no title.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

Nickey advertised that they would paint your 427/Conversion any color that you wanted. Yellow was one of the options and a color that no other MFG was using at that time.

The only other Builder that we have found to use Yellow on a regular basis was Ed Pink.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

My point is that too many people place way too much weight on an engine being, or not being, yellow to try to determine if there was a Nickey/Bill Thomas connection to a specific car. I'm sure this comes from the well known cover shot of Bill Thomas techs installing a yellow painted engine into a red Camaro.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

It COULD be the real deal, the colour is just one little sign, not proof. It always takes proof to be certain.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

[ QUOTE ]
My point is that too many people place way too much weight on an engine being, or not being, yellow to try to determine if there was a Nickey/Bill Thomas connection to a specific car. I'm sure this comes from the well known cover shot of Bill Thomas techs installing a yellow painted engine into a red Camaro.

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On this car I have no reason there is any Nickey association, I find alot of parts on it interesting, I know it has some form of past to find it would be great, and for engine color being a factor on anything is really no credit, Like I said in the past it has been painted and painted rebuilt and blown up but was yellow once, I just find as I dug into the car and era of the parts find it interesting date codes etc, and with parts on the car makes me wonder if this ever went on. on the other side of things found out the block is 4.350 overbore (not good) and rusty at that....

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

A little update on the car, I found it intesting after today with the code on the rear in tech, so here is the rear also here, be code has 4:88 gears now, also restored the front wheels and tires they look good, not sure on wheel codes but they are k 18 space 3 and if I remember correct TW on the other side of the valve stem sorry forgot my notes at the shop.... The tires and wheels came on the car decided to just restore what was there, the engine on the other had needs some love.... 4.350 kicked two rods 1 and 2 heads look great they are next to the tires in pic (gave them a bath today) so its still a mystery machine...

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...er42768003.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...er42768006.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...er42768008.jpg

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

So now that you've shown you can take and post photos... lets see some pics of the car.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

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So now that you've shown you can take and post photos... lets see some pics of the car.

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soon grasshopper.... its ugly https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

I do not really have the money to spend on the 427 Its going to be a major job, so I was thinking for now just putting this in with a clean up, good runner 10.5 comp with a small solid roller 5.75 5.88 227 and 232 @ .050 on 112* made good power and I can use the money to have the car ready for spring, and just fix the 427 next summer.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...lass/69512.jpg

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

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[ QUOTE ]
So now that you've shown you can take and post photos... lets see some pics of the car.

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soon grasshopper.... its ugly https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

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Ugly is good. then we can all go ooo and ahhh after you wash it !! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

hey Jeff, That motor don't sound to shabby to me! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gifhttps://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

[ QUOTE ]
hey Jeff, That motor don't sound to shabby to me! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gifhttps://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

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It will be fine for now, I want to get the aluminum headed deal back in it but not enough $$ in my mad money account.. Heads will be a easy fix block is another issue..

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So now that you've shown you can take and post photos... lets see some pics of the car.

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soon grasshopper.... its ugly https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

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Just seems pretty silly to have a 2 page thread about a car and no pictures of it... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smirk.gif but whatever floats your boat, grasshopper.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So now that you've shown you can take and post photos... lets see some pics of the car.

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soon grasshopper.... its ugly https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

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Just seems pretty silly to have a 2 page thread about a car and no pictures of it... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smirk.gif but whatever floats your boat, grasshopper.

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!!WOW!! I did not mean to strike a nerve if I did sorry, I started this with a question, and the car itself is questionable, I have pics when I bought the car before I took it apart and all the codes, I will share them when I get the paperwork like I said before, I bought the car from a guy who said it was a hand me down, but had no title and no proof of ownership, I did get a large amount of parts with it, and I figured if it went bad I have them stowed away and I will be fine on parts alone. When that title is in my hand I will load them up start to finish if you like.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

Sounds like someone wrecked their hot car and bought a 6 cyl to swap the pieces into.
does the engine / trans / rear dates match up, was the block installed in a car originally or is it an over the counter block, I would think these details could help determine if it was a parted out/ rebuild car if the codes/dates line up to an actual car, if its an over the counter engine it may have been a swap

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like someone wrecked their hot car and bought a 6 cyl to swap the pieces into.
does the engine / trans / rear dates match up, was the block installed in a car originally or is it an over the counter block, I would think these details could help determine if it was a parted out/ rebuild car if the codes/dates line up to an actual car, if its an over the counter engine it may have been a swap

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OTC engine 427 aluminum heads, OTC trans M22, BE 12 Bolt that was never built??? Light body no sound deadner full delete car, Fiberglass over steel stinger hood, with insert, 14X7 wheels K-18-3 up front, rear aftermarket wheels with slicks, Bill Thomas Race Cars sticker in trunk Old school paper, tow bar in front.. red on black one repaint with emblem delete. Interesting car.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

Definately an interesting car, keep the info coming and share some pics once you get the paperwork straightened out, are there many layers of paint? you might find a lettered up version buried that could help identify it.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

Well I have title in hand now and the last few weeks been working on the car with time given, I stripped the car very carfully I found nothing as far as markings other than where a old dealer badge had been mounted on the back, I had taken the car apart and stipped the panels, I primed them with uretane primer the hood needed alot of work so on the first coat I used some ppg epoxy, I sent out the shifter handle for plating with the ansen ground grabbers, It came back good but forgot to send the nut... When I first posted about the car I made some mistakes, I really didn't think much of it meaning the car but it just had some cool parts on it, well the car does not have 14X7 wheels but FC code 14X6 I thought they were 7 just by looking at the width of the lip? My mistake!! the spare is a FC wheel also but has no kelsey hayes stamp or date just FC??? the rear tires are 800 850 slicks verses a 700 slick, the car is a radio delete, and I guess in the 70's when you want to add a radio you just take a torche to the fender for the antenna... Well I started to bolt the car back togeather and fit parts so I can take it back apart to paint, It is going back single stage in ppg and blending into the trunk and firewall I want to leave as much original as I can, The hood bezel is painted blue inside, Car went though a tuff time in 76 with a white and blue stripe added to the red.....

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

fitting things

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d.../beater042.jpg

Restored spare FC no date or Kelsey hayes??

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d.../beater044.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d.../beater045.jpg

Dealer badge holes I will never know who

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d.../beater048.jpg

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

Shifter handle rechromed it does have some small pitts, and I forgot to send the nut in...

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d.../beater051.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d.../beater052.jpg

Very cool tach mechanical Yes hole in firewall..

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d.../beater053.jpg

When you need a antenna get a torche, not sure if I'm going to fix it or what just yet????

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d.../beater055.jpg

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

I have not been on in ages or messed with this car in ages also, I went ahead and painted it last weekend and decided I better get it back together sometime before I am 80.. don't mind the brass fittings on engine I had the water pump disconnected and ran it on the hose before I put the front clip on, engine had been sitting 6 years I figured I better make sure it was fine. One of these years Ill pop in and it might actually be finished...

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...pszenw9mwm.jpg

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

I sprayed it in PPG single stage enamel I wanted to stay with single stage just to be more old school with the build I sprayed trunk and jambs cowl area with the car so no lines to buff out, seeing it in color might keep me motivated... I hope..

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...psigklojkj.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...psmzca9vzy.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...pssevqpf22.jpg

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

Not a thing wrong with single atage, looks great.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

I've shot a lot of DuPont Centari w/gloss improver and have had excellent results.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

I actually had a hard time getting single stage here I had to order it in, but I was mind set that's what I wanted.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

Time to change your screen name. Does not look like a beater anymore! Looks good!

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

If it's not metallic I shoot single stage, I don't like the way the clear looks over a solid color.

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

Just about done with the firewall decided to fire up the engine before hanging front clip, I run a hose into the water pump and out the intake (grey hoses) for cooling while I was running it, I like my fingers....

http://vid226.photobucket.com/albums...psgoxnmc9m.mp4

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

What are you running for a cam ... ? Sounds awesome!!! TAZ

Re: Did Bill Thomas build Camaros outside NICKEY??
 

I was wondering about this car a week or two ago, thanks for the cool updates!
Have you sent in for the NCRS dealer info yet...it may offer nothing more than a clue to the history but worthwhile for all it costs also help you decide how to fill your dealer emblem holes?
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]
~ Pete