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Original 69 GM Derby Caps Wanted
Looking for a correct set of show quality derby caps for 69. Ideally a set of originals with the double ribbed boss on the inside of the caps. Let me know what you have. Thanks
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Example of the double ribbed boss ? I know I have a NOS set somewhere and a ton of used.
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Charley,
I dug up these two for now and will try to explain what I learned from Mike Thorpe (rszmjt) on the subject of factory issued derby caps. He's handled thousands of these caps and has been checking them since the 1970's for differences between them. The parts numbers most know for these are 3925801 or 3925805 but they both differ by time frame issued and were also remade by various manufacturers under GM. The early factory originals for 1969 have a double casting rib (or flute) where the screws from the backside of the rings secure to the caps on each of the 4 screw locations. Original production line installed rally wheel caps have this double rib inside, have the GM part number 3925805 and also say made in Canada inside the cap. I think they were made by McKinnon Industries for GM but not positive on that one? http://image.ibb.co/no9z9x/Inside.jpg The later versions have a single casting rib (or flute) with one of the above part numbers and in the last 15 years or so, the part number had disappeared completely. They also have various casting flash differences from the factory issued caps or the early over the counter parts but are easy to spot from originals. Below are a couple pictures that simply address the casting ribs, but do not go into the comparisons of the outer fonts and such. I have also been told that 68 and 69 caps differ from each other on the outer beveled edges of the rings where one is more rounded than the other and that the 69 has more pronounced flat edges with a sharper radius. Here's the 69 version with the sharp edge along the outer edge of the ring. http://image.ibb.co/b1mPbc/Derby.jpg The later 3925805 part numbers differ widely in the casting flash inside the caps from what is obviously different vendors for GM. They also have different fonts and ring sizes on the outside cap as I have come to learn but still don't know enough about that. I have had 2 sets of originals including a 68 driver with factory issued derby's with the double ribs and made in Canada markings, but quality was poor. |
Another showing double ribbed cap. Marked Canada as seen and believed to be an original factory assembly line installed cap.
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/...uble%20Rib.jpg |
Better pics showing another original assembly line double ribbed cap, and another single ribbed cap. The attaching screws also have different markings where the assembly line cap has a triangular marking on the screw head.
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/...L/IMG_5125.jpg Double ribbed with head markings on the screw http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/...L/IMG_5126.jpg Single ribbed with different screw as well |
Learned something new today!
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I found some but what is a nice double rib set worth ?
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PM on the way.
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Fish on line......
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Don't know if the PM sent or not?
Most sets I have seen average between $400 to as high as $600 for a real decent show quality set. NOS ones with the single rib have been averaging $500. There's a guy in Utah that sells complete restored sets between $600 to $800 with the higher price being for dead mint originals. These are top flight quality pieces. Let me know what you have and what you'd like for them. Thanks |
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I counted I think 31 caps, 17 with double rib, 10 single rib and 4 new in boxes. None other than the new are like new but some are very nice. You have first shot at 4 or you can make a offer on all and pick out best .
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I'd take 4 drivers and maybe the 4 NOS Charley.
Heck, lets throw in a pair of the 4 clip rings if you can pull out a decent pair. Then I'm good to go. :drool: |
not to hijack this - but as another bit of info - did you know that there is a 68 only style ring that the derby hat sits on? Well know in the corvette world but no so much elsewhere.
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pics ?
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Rings for the Top Hats Differences
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The 68 only caps have a rounded edge on the crest of the lip. First Pic is the 68 style and the 2nd pic is all other yrs. I have noticed other years the edge is more sharp that others but nothing like the 68's .
Having several 68 cars, the quest to find the right ring was on...was able to save a number of 68 only rings - tossed away the top hat as they are usually all scratched up. Now we have 68 only rings and factory double ribbed top hats! Got a new market :-) If anyone wants more pics, let me know |
I can't see what you are talking about.
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Try this pic
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That's what I was referring to in my earlier post as well. The 68's are more rounded where they transition from the inner bevel to the outer returns. Great pics Ed.
A lot of people don't know about this, but then it only really matters if you're going to have your car judged. I don't think all the judges know the differences in caps either? |
I found one round edge one. Hard to see it but easy to feel.
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Say I'm at the MCACN show looking at Joe Blow's really nice restored Yenko, ZL-1, COPO
etc done by XYZ shop in Bumfxxk, ID.............how inferior are the best reproduction ralley caps when looked at by 99 out of 100 enthusiasts ????? Thanks for the education !!!!!!! ps. Looking for 1st design 70-74 Z-28 trim rings !!!!!! |
The only repo Rally caps I remember were chromed plastic without the Chevrolet lettering and pretty easy to spot. Maybe someone has something out now but don't know why as there were plenty from Chevrolet.
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I stand corrected . Classic has repos with lettering now. They also sell GM caps at 281.00 each or just the center at 96.99 each.
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Chuck, I bought a set from HBC...repo ones..beautiful chrome...i was impressed
i did notice that the overall diameter of derby cap was slightly less than the GM ones...maye 3/8 - 1/2 inch or so...so when u install HBC ones, the edge of the cap lip is right at the raised section of the rally wheel. The GM ones extend past the raised section of the wheel and allow u to get your finger behind to pull them off. The HBC ones were very impressive - also some slight lettering difference, but at about 250 a set - they make a great driver set with great polished chrome. His trim rings are very nice as well..... |
Best repro caps and rings are coming from D&R right now. The rings look spot on and have the correct oval holes for the valve stem. Not the 4 clip style as they have the serated edges but real decent. Their caps are also a much higher quality than the lightweight ones from HBC. The ones HBC carry are coming from Summit's supplier of Rally Wheels. Wheel Vintiques I think
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Big thank you to Ed for hooking me up with some NOS double ribbed caps & matching bottoms today. Great member to deal with, as are many here on sYc! 3gears.gif
Thanks to you too Charley for hunting through your personal stash for me. Hope I didn't inconvenience you? Got everything I need for now and trust these will look great on the 69 when it's finished up. http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/...28/Derby_1.jpg http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/...8/Inside_1.jpg |
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I have some originals (3 non-double fluted and 1 doubled fluted) that are identical to your top photo on my survivor 68 Z.....Did they have two that are factory original?? |
I haven't seen enough 68 center caps to tell you anything more but any factory original caps that I have seen do have those double ridged flutes. The 68 centers also have a soft rounded outer edge around the edges of the hat, and not the pronounced sharp edge as seen on the edges of the 69 hats.
Maybe post some clear pictures of the ones from your 68 car both inside and out with close up shots from the hats and the return edges? |
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The largest difference I have found is that the assembly line installed cap have a cone shape to the VERY center on the outside, the caps made for the next run have a rounded dome and the edges are not as sharp.
If you close your eyes and run your finger lightly over the center of the cap you can feel the actual point on the cone, this has been checked on many original cars by myself and or other collectors with survivors and known history. The first two are the rounded dome shape... the last two have a cone shape - NOTE the reflection in the center and the straight lines versus the curved shape of the reflection in the first two. I have found that most parts which were subjected to second runs had the parts manufactured from original samples which were polished thus knocking off the sharper edged and lessening the details. the CONE shape makes perfect sense as the original pattern was most likely cut on a lathe. |
How many other folks went out to the garage and rubbed their cap cones?
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I've got a box full of these things -- guess I need to check em' ... TAZ
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Cones...
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just got back from a good garage cone rub!!
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Guilty also...Joe
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http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/...28/Derby_1.jpg |
I think I'd rather rub the lamp; not the genie.
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Oh my... What the heck have I started...
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