Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

Anyone that wants to dump their SuperCar[s] before the sky falls...please PM me for a quick/easy deal.

SS

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

Considering this thread started with Dave Castine request - and his comfort at 80% the car is real . . . Dave where are you with all this new info and your friend??

What do you think your friend is planning to do??

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

MuscleCar prices rise & fall and rise & fall,just like everything else does in society today.Nothing is immune from this.
If this upsets & disturbs anyone today,then they are in this hobby for the wrong reasons and were in over their heads from the very beginning.
I see only the Carpetbagging chicken littles with no experience,as the first to declare the "Sky is Falling" & jump ship..and I say good ridence to you all. http://www.wdisneyw.com/forums/images/smilies/hello.gif
Speaking soley for myself,if car prices do escalate,I will still own my Super Sport Chevelle.
If car prices do fall,I will still own my Super Sport Chevelle...plus I will buy as many as my 401K allows.
I do believe that if Musclecar prices do fall drastically one day,it'll be the Clones that will take the largest,most dramatic decrease in value first overall the other vehicles on the block at that very time.

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

I think you are really over stating and exagerating my point..I don't think I ever mentioned they'd be worth pennies on the dollar..simply that there isn't really any evidence to suggest that they will continue to rise in value and "the sky's the limit" mentality when it comes to value isn't really valid...It would defy historic data as well as economics...

Just curious but if you are assuming that there will be no reduction in value where do you see a 1969 Z28 in 5 years? a LS6? a COPO? If you are expecting these cars to continually rise in value at the same proportions they have over the last few years isn't it safe to say that even among "hardcore" collectors there becomes a point when the price exceeds either their ability to buy or their desire to pay? Please keep in mind you aren't talking about objects where there is a very finite number made..art (1 or 2 pieces that are alike) or exotics...You are talking about mass produced items that are truly appreciated when it comes to value by a minority. If you want to see this...go take a COPO, LS6, Hemi or any musclecar to a public arena and ask how mnay people would honestly pay your asking price for it. The majority will not pay what this market is bearing at the moment among colectors, simply because they do not see the perceived value. Musclecars simply aren't viewed as a commodity or truly collectible by folks outside of the hobby like a Ferrai or Renoir or land. Therefore they are much more volatile with respect to price and the market and once the market becomes saturated with product at a given price the prices drop because there aren't enough people that will pay the price. This type of thinking isn't being negative...just basic economics which I would suggest if you are paying these current prices for musclecars then you should have studied.

I agree after 9/11 people's perception changed and a more "get it while you can" mentality has taken over...but we are still discussing cars which are still viewed by the majority as mere tools to move about. Sure everyone wants to look stylish but one only has to look at the current new car situation and you quickly realize most want practical verse flash. If they didn't people would still be buying SUV's and trucks at the same rate as 2-3 years ago...

Just for the record in the last couple of years I've sold a few very hi-po cars...'vettes, a 'cuda, a couple of LS6's, etc..I sold them because I didn't enjoy them any longer and my interest have moved more to "Day 2" cars and just basic fun musclecars without regard to originality..which can encompass anything from matching numbered cars to the clones. I'm actually thinking about building a pro touring car (camaro or cuda)as for me and my enjoyment they represent the best of both worlds. I have been messing with these cars since the first "boom" and honestly think if you move away from very niche sites like this to more "masses" sites..Team Camaro, Chevelle, Moparts, etc..you will find the majority of musclecar enthuiast don't feel the current prices are both good for the hobby or will keep going up.

just my thoughts

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

[ QUOTE ]


Just curious but if you are assuming that there will be no reduction in value where do you see a 1969 Z28 in 5 years? a LS6? a COPO?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you asked, I believe that original examples of every one of the above mentioned cars will be worth more in 5 years than they are right now.

Unlike yourself, I'm not a value speculator or "investor", nor do I use the word "economics" when talking about the cars i love, but I do know this... I have been into these cars all my life, and since i was a little kid I have been going to auctions, car shows, swap meets, etc. I have never seen the cars I liked cost LESS one year than they did the previous year. EVER.

While I'm not any type of expert on LS6 prices or values, I have followed the prices of Yenko cars fairly closely simply because I have been trying to buy one for years...as the years passed, I watched Yenko Deuces go from 20k to 30k to 40k to 50k to 100k all the way to 175k. At the time I bought mine it was one of the highest prices ever paid for one. There were some folks in the shadows similar to yourself saying it was "too much money", "the bottom was going to fall out", "its overpriced" etc. That was less 5 years ago. I think those folks were proven wrong at least 3 times over. In fact, every one of 'em sold since has sold for more money than the one before it. What will it be worth in another 5 years? I don't know, but to be honest I hope you're right and its worth less than what I paid for it, because "economics" has nothing to do with my love or interest in these cars, and I'd like to get another one. (or 2 or 3!) To me it doesnt matter if they "continue to rise in value at the same proportions they have over the last few years", which I agree they will likely not do, (since they have indeed tripled in value in 5 years or less) But at the same time, I'm not saying i feel that their value is going to fall. Restoration and parts costs will keep rising, as will the prices of the cars themselves... from the bottom level project 6 cylinder cars all the way to the top level restored supercars. It seems to me that over the years, (as far back as I can personally remember) I've heard alot more people saying "Man, i wish I still had that car I sold" more than I've heard them saying they are glad they sold when they did. Just about everyone who ever sold a car believes in their minds that they sold at "the right time", yet the car ends up being worth even more as time passes. Believe it or not, I actually hate talking about values and prices, as thats not why I'm into this stuff... but this thread just sorta got me thinking about it a little.

As with the speculators and naysayers of the previous 5 years who were proven wrong when they said these cars were "overpriced" in 2001, we'll just have to wait and see who's doomsday reports of today prove to be fact or fiction in 5 more... Talk to ya in 2011.



So you really sold original Corvettes and LS6's to buy and build clones/day 2 cars?

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

[ QUOTE ]
MuscleCar prices rise & fall and rise & fall,just like everything else does in society today.Nothing is immune from this.
If this upsets & disturbs anyone today,then they are in this hobby for the wrong reasons and were in over their heads from the very beginning.
I see only the Carpetbagging chicken littles with no experience,as the first to declare the "Sky is Falling" & jump ship..and I say good ridence to you all. http://www.wdisneyw.com/forums/images/smilies/hello.gif
Speaking soley for myself,if car prices do escalate,I will still own my Super Sport Chevelle.
If car prices do fall,I will still own my Super Sport Chevelle...plus I will buy as many as my 401K allows.
I do believe that if Musclecar prices do fall drastically one day,it'll be the Clones that will take the largest,most dramatic decrease in value first overall the other vehicles on the block at that very time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are correct that the clones will drop value faster and perhaps more drastically..but then we get back to the problem with GM musclecars...documentation. I feel if you are collecting GM musclecars you run the very real possibilty that the documentation being faked will not be able to be detected and as a result the prices on ALL GM cars will suffer.

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Just curious but if you are assuming that there will be no reduction in value where do you see a 1969 Z28 in 5 years? a LS6? a COPO?

[/ QUOTE ]


Since you asked, I believe that original examples of every one of the above mentioned cars will be worth more in 5 years than they are right now.

Unlike yourself, I'm not a value speculator or "investor", nor do I use the word "economics" when talking about the cars i love, but I do know this... I have been into these cars all my life, and since i was a little kid I have been going to auctions, car shows, swap meets, etc. I have never seen the cars I liked cost LESS one year than they did the previous year. EVER.

While I'm not any type of expert on LS6 prices or values, I have followed the prices of Yenko cars fairly closely simply because I have been trying to buy one for years...as the years passed, I watched Yenko Deuces go from 20k to 30k to 40k to 50k to 100k all the way to 175k. At the time I bought mine at 50k it was one of the highest prices ever paid for one. There were some folks in the shadows similar to yourself saying it was "too much money", "the bottom was going to fall out", "its overpriced" etc. That was less 5 years ago. I think those folks were proven wrong at least 3 times over. In fact, every one of 'em sold since has sold for more money than the one before it. What will it be worth in another 5 years? I don't know, but to be honest I hope you're right and its worth less than what I paid for it, because "economics" has nothing to do with my love or interest in these cars, and I'd like to get another one. (or 2 or 3!) To me it doesnt matter if they "continue to rise in value at the same proportions they have over the last few years", which I agree they will likely not do, since they have tripled in value in 5 years or less but at the same time, I'm not saying their value is going to fall. As with the speculators and naysayers of the previous 5 years who were proven wrong when they said these cars were "overpriced" in 2001, we'll just have to wait and see who's doomsday reports of today prove to be fact or fiction in 5 more... Talk to ya in 2011.



So you really sold original Corvettes and LS6's to buy and build clones/day 2 cars?

[/ QUOTE ]

"No..." I didn't sell original cars to buy or build clones...sold them to buy a business and realestate which in turn made me way more money then musclecars..

I'm not a specualtor or investor in these cars either..have had them in some capacity for over 20 years. I actually really enjoy original cars, but with the current situation with fraud and restamped parts I just don't feel comfortable buying original cars, especially GM cars. I watch websites like this and read post and see that the potential for deception doesn't seem to be limited to low end cars being turned into high end cars...I know it has even gone so far as historic cars being faked and that bothers me. If guys are faking cars and turning unknown cars into historic cars, with known historic provence then what are the chances someone will fake a basic SS396??? So for now if I want to drive a 1969 Camaro I'd rather have something where noone cares about documentation, matching numbers, etc..Something that is just enjoyed for what it was/is..a cool old car that sounds great and performs great and gets "thumbs up" without all the other hassles.

Just for the record about cars being worth less..I can remember looking at a 1969 RS/JL8 cross ram car Ed Uylate (sp?) had in 1994 or 1995..it was a LA car loaded to the gills with options, a 10 10 car, etc..He wanted 19-20k for it at the time, but it didn't have paperwork...the sum of the parts was worth the money, but why part it out if it was real...If he had listed that car in 1989 would it have been listed for 19k or 65k? That is just one example.

It seems like you are only looking at the "good" data....the data from the boom...check out the prices from 1989 and then 1994 or so..what was the percentage of drop..not the actual money, but the percentage...inflation in general has to be taken into account. It also looks like you are into the car even in a "bad" market for "ok" money so you will be ok more than likely..However what about the guys buying them for 100-150k?? Who knows...

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

Sounds like you've been into this stuff for awhile too...I see you just recently signed up here... did you just discover the site? Where are you from?

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

I've been around the block...lol I am not a huge internet guy...when online (I use computers daily for work so when off try to stay away from them..lol) normally stay on other sites...have way too many interest...cars are just one of them.

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

What state are you in?