Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

I ordered some TRW/Speed Pro/Federal Mogul L2359 forged flat top pistons and some 4340 forged steel H-beam rods. They should be here by next week, along with the bearing sets. The block is already at the machine shop getting tanked, honed and new cam bearings. The bores measured out at exactly .030 over so I am staying at that size. The Heads are getting disassembled, cleaned, and a nice valve job (if needed) by the same shop. The crank will get polished and then everything balanced together, along with the harmonic balancer and flywheel/clutch plate. I already have the new Melling 068 cam and oil pump.

Once everything is back I will let my 12 year old put it all together, just like he did last year with the 350 Pontiac from Gramma's Firebird. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbt...ect#Post449019

So, who needs some low mileage, domed pistons and cast rods? Or that Crane camshaft? They only have around 5000 miles on them.

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

Got the engine block back today! It only took two days for the hot tank, hone and cam bearings! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

Rod and main bearings arrived today. Pistons should be here tomorrow and rods on Monday. Heads should be done tuesday, then the reciprocating assembly can be balanced which should take around a week....

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12212.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12208.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

The forged pistons and rings arrived today!

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/use...8-sdc12214.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

The forged H-heam rods arrived today! Everything gets dropped off tomorrow for balancing.

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/use...6-sdc12215.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

Picked up the 7F6 cylinder heads today. Nice and shiny on the bottoms. I had them measure the chamber volume and it turns out it is 107cc versus the original 111 cc advertised volume. So it looks like it was resurfaced/milled at the last rebuild 20 years ago. Hopefully this gives me a bit more than the 8.4 to 1 that the original style flat tops give. Maybe 9 to 1?

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12218.jpg

I also dropped off all the rotating parts and they should be balanced by next week sometime. Then comes the fun part: assembly.

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

This evening at the local votech school where I spend my Tuesday nights in the &quot;Intro to Body Work&quot; class, I welded up a bracket to retain the oil pump pickup from falling out of the oil pump. It was easier to do this than brazing the steel pickup to the cast iron body.

Here's what it looked like after I unwrapped it from its protective plastic and masking tape wrapping. (To keep the welding debris out of the screen).

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12222.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

Looking good Steve! As to the heads, are you going to use a thicker composite gasket or factory steel shim? The composite should give you close to the factory cc volume, while the shim would give you the smaller amount. I have a bad experience with shaved heads and intake fitment, so I am not a fan, but good luck!

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

I'm using the Felpro blue head gaskets. The intake fit fine with no vacuum leaks so it was probably shaved at the same time back then.

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

Spent some time glass glass beading the exhaust manifolds. I sprayed them with some high temp, cast iron grey, header paint. It won't last too long after the engine runs, but that paint at least leaves a residue that doesn't rust.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/P1000647.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/P1000648.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/P1000649.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

I also glass beaded the intake. Even though it will be painted the correct 1972 Pontiac egg-shell blue, I still had to get the old clear coat residue off.

I also washed out out the oil pan. It was remarkably non-dented on the bottom. (Running out of things to clean...)

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/P1000650.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

I scrubbed the M22 to get the all the engine oil off from the leaky rear main seal. The bellhousing got a scrubbing, too. That took a a day of soaking since the clutch dust combined with the leaking engine oil really soaked into the pores of the aluminum housing.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t.../P1000643a.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/P1000639.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t.../P1000642a.jpg


I had to order a new clutch fork since I noticed that one of the clips clips that retains the throw out bearing was broken off.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/P1000652.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/P1000653.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

Always enjoyable to watch Steve!

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

Thanks! I enjoy the audience participation, too, so feel free to chime in, guys!

BTW, does anyone have a photo of the oil pan baffle that was tack welded in the later model Pontiac oil pans? I need a good photo with a ruler next to it so I can make one out of metal and weld it into the original pan. Pontiac started using the baffle in 1975 give or take a year. It prevents the oil from flowing up toward the front during braking and cornering.

It looks like the one in this photo but this photo is at an angle. If I had an overhead photo with some measurements, I could make an accurate template.

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/use...ingoil_pan.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

I was able to obtain some photos of the factory baffle used in the later 1970s. I made a cardboard template so I can hand make the baffle and weld it in during shop class on Tuesday. I also trial fitted the pan with stunt-baffle on the block with the oil pump and pickup installed. No clearance issues, thankfully.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...CIMG5869-1.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t.../SDC12228a.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

I dragged my 12 year old, engine building apprentice out to the garage today (it's about 38 degrees or so at the moment). I had him measure the top and second ring gaps in the cylinders. I had to keep reminding him not to &quot;saw&quot; the feeler gauge but gently see if it passes between the ring ends. Only had to remind him 16 times. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

Top gaps were .016 and second ring gaps were .020 after doing some mix and matching between the cylinders.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12230.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

I ended up getting a McLeod 673-16931 heavy duty clutch fork to replace the stock unit with the broken tab. http://www.jegs.com/i/McLeod/673/16931/10002/-1#

I did have to do a little trimming of the flared out portion on the top edge of the fork to clear the interior bolt mounting boss.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12233.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12234.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12235.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

Back from shop class with the revised oil pan. Took about an hour to fabricate and weld in the baffle. Gotta love those plasma cutters. Man those things cut the labor time into seconds. It took longer to trace the template onto the steel with a magic marker than it did to cut it out with the plasma cutter. Then I used a hammer and an anvil to bend the tabs and form the lip on the interior edges.

It's not too pretty but it fits and clears the oil pump perfectly.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...CIMG5869-1.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12239.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

Old school thinking! Don't buy it.............................make it!

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

It's more like Cheap Old Man Thinking.

Why the heck would I buy a new pan with a baffle for $75 which won't even have the drain plug in the correct spot, when I can use the original pan and build a baffle for free out of scrap sheetmetal and get to play with neat cutting and welding equipment.
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif[/img]

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

I got the pistons and rods back today. The crank should be done with balancing tomorrow so we can start the assembly process this weekend.

The machinist said that the rods and pistons were all within a gram of each other and didn't really require any modifications to get them all matched.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12243.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

I have the balancing sheet with the weights. The rods were within 1 gram of each other out of the box: 4 were 758 and 4 were 759, which coincided well with the pistons, 4 of which were 779 and 4 were 778. So he just matched them to all together to come out to the same weight when he mounted the pistons to the rods.

According to the machinist, the new rod and piston combo was 100 grams less than the domed, forged pistons and cast rods that I pulled out of the engine. They had to drill out some material from the crank to lighten it up to match the new pistons and rods.

Everything is home now and we should be assembling this weekend!

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

We got the new BOP rear main lip seal in and installed the freshly polished and balanced crank. Now it has to sit overnight per the instructions to let the seal set. The boy did pretty well torquing down the 100 ftlbs on the mains (120 on the rear cap). He's gotten stronger since last year's engine build. :-)

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12246.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12248.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

Went out Christmas tree shopping this morning with the family and then we spent the rest of the day assembling the short block.

We made it a family affair: I installed two pistons, the wife installed two and the daughter and son each installed two.

Much arguing over teaching the wife how and why you use a torque wrench. She couldn't seem to understand how/why the thing clicks when the correct amount of turning force is applied and how to set it. Luckily the daughter has an A average in Physics and was able to understand and explain &quot;torque&quot; to her. A most entertaining day.

The daughter keeps asking me to teach her how to drive a manual transmission, so I figure she can help assemble the clutch and install the transmission when the time comes, in order to learn how the clutch works before she melts this one during training. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

After we got all eight pistons and rods in and Plastigaged each one (.002 oil clearance on all rods and mains), we then cleaned and retorqued it all again. I installed the timing cover, windage tray, oil pump and shaft, and oil pan after checking to make sure the dip stick cleared everything.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12329.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12332.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12334.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

I can't believe you actually have help! Denise wont even set foot in the garage (sometimes it's better that way).

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

I installed the heads this morning and then the kids put the valvetrain parts on. My son's favorite part was glopping on all the moly paste and red goo antiwear ointment to the cam, lifters, rocker arms, push rods, valve stems, and clothing. If it involves making a mess, he's happy to assist. My daughter on the other hand had just finished her nails and was quite content using the clean breaker bar to turn the engine over while I adjusted each rocker arm.

Normally a Pontiac is a set to 20 ft.lbs. with a non adjustable valvetrain but the shouldered rocker studs were previously replaced with a set of 7/16 x 20 Big Block Chevy studs with no shoulders. That allows for a more precise individual adjustment.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12353.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

<span style="font-size: 20pt">Nice job MacGuyver family!</span> [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

----Steve,,,Keep up this training schedule and pretty soon you can just sit there in your chaise lounge with your cooler next to you and point!!!......Bill S

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

Versus just standing and yelling now? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

While the son lost interest and went inside to play his video games after the messy part was done, the daughter stayed around and helped set the valves. She got very good at locating the exact low spot on the cam lobes. I'd watch the lifter on top of the lobe ramp and just tell her &quot;now go 180 degrees&quot; and she would be there. Most excellent.

And she never even chipped a nail! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

Major kudos to you for getting your children involved in something like this. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]

These will (hopefully) be some of the memories they will be able to cherish later on in life.

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/youguysrock.gif[/img]

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

And she never even chipped a nail! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
</div></div>



[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

Looking great Steve! Keep up the good work with the kids.


Jason

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

While it was 60 degrees out today I rushed and got the rest of the engine completed so I could get some paint on it. I did spend a good half hour or so priming the oil pump and pumping oil through the engine while constantly turning the engine over by hand to get the lifters filled and oil up to the rockers. The daughter assisted in running the drill...until it started smoking and she ran inside claiming she had homework she had to get done. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Here is something some of you Round Port guys might be interested in. Since no one makes the unique 1972-only intake gasket that has the small square heat riser port for the 7F6 cylinder heads, I had to improvise a little.

I ended up using the Felpro 90123 (RAIV, 1971 455HO,1973/4 SD455) large port intake gasket for the intake runner sections and then sectioned in the heat riser portion from the Felpro 90205 1972 455 D-port head intake gasket. This way everything ends up matching what it is supposed to mate with. And since the cast iron heat riser is a separate piece from the aluminum dual plane intake, there are no leakage problems to deal with.

And yes, that small, open, horizontal rectangle above the square heat risser port is supposed to be open to the atmosphere. It is sealed off from the inside of the engine and I believe it was created to allow ambient air in to prevent hot oil from &quot;coking&quot; onto the cylinder head's internal heat riser passages.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12355.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12356.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12360.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

All assembled and wheeled out in to the driveway as the sun was going down.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12362.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12364.jpg

And with the rest of the OEM Paint 1972-only, Robins Egg Blue paint that I had left over from the 72 T/A from a few years back. It was $50 a can back then. I don't even know if they are still in business making this stuff any more?

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12368.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12369.jpg

The wife helped me wheel it back in to the garage, in the dark, where it now sits waiting to go back in the car. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

Steve...thumbs up for involving your kids and wife in the project. You are creating memories. In the end that is what counts. The car may or may not be there but your kids and wife will always remember the time spent in the garage with dad. Great job Steve! Carry on!

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

I always enjoy reading of your exploits Steve...Enjoys your kids, the grow up FAST [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

I got the engine all prepped and ready to go back in. Once it was up on the hoist I called the wife out to assist. She was not amused since the last engine install she helped on was with Gramma's Firebird and the motor mounts in a 1975 Pontiac are super hard to get lined up as compared to the older style used in 1972. That one took two hours of jockeying just to get one motor mount bolt in place.

This engine went in like a dream. I figured out the trick: Move the car to the hoist and not the hoist to the car. I had the engine in the driveway lined up with the center of the transmission tunnel. I then had the wife hold the back of the trans so it wouldn't rotate out of position. I then pushed the car to the engine and while she held the transmission in place, I lowered the engine a couple inches. I'd then push the car forward a few inches and lower the engine again. We repeated this around 10 times and the engine just popped right in.

The whole process took about 30 minutes.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12375.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12382.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12387.jpg

All ready for the rest of the external engine parts. Those are the &quot;stunt&quot; valve covers instead of the newly painted ones.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC12398.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

NJ, isn't this funny? Here I am with my 16 year old this summer studying our first seal of this type install.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto..._3582762_n.jpg

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

The BOP lip seal, I presume? It works a whole lot better than the leaky rope seals that come in the Felpro gasket set.

Very good to see you training the next generation. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]

Re: The New Project: Part Deux!
 

Yes sir on the seal from Butler, that was my first time to use one as well and I hope I got it right. I let my son torque his motor too with a watchful eye [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif[/img]